BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
COUNTY OF MAUI
REGULAR BOARD MEETING
THURSDAY, JUNE 23, 2005
Kalana O Maui Building
200 South High Street, Seventh Floor
Wailuku, Maui, Hawaii
Reported by: Katherine Eismann, RDR, CRR, CSR #439
APPEARANCES
Chairperson: MICHAEL VICTORINO
Vice Chairman: KENNETH OKAMURA
Board Members: STACY HELM CRIVELLO
GINNY PARSONS
SALLY RAISBECK
RALPH JOHANSEN
MICHELLE McLEAN
Corp Counsel: EDWARD KUSHI, JR.
Director: GEORGE TENGAN
Board Secretary: CATHY HOWARD
(Thursday, June 23, 2005, 9:05 a.m.)
* * * * *
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I'd like to call this meeting
to order of the Board of Water Supply, June 23rd, 2005.
Members present, Kenneth Okamura, Ralph Johansen, Ginny
Parsons, Sally Raisbeck, and Michele McLean, and myself, Mike
Victorino.
Okay. We will switch. If it's okay with the
Board, I'd like to move the -- before we go to approval of
minutes, I'd like to present, with your approval, a
presentation by Maui Nui Botanical Gardens. Lisa Raymond is
here to do a presentation. So, if this is okay with the
Board, can I move that up and do that as the first item of
business?
BOARDMEMBER MC: No objection.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any objections?
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: No.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Mr. Chair, may I make a
request?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Sure.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Also, the election of a new
Chair is at the very end of the agenda. People might have to
leave. We might --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: We can do that. That
shouldn't be a major problem. Okay. So, why don't we start
with Lisa first, since everything is working.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: It's not working. They
are not talking to each other.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: They are not talking to each
other.
MS. HOWARD: Not yet.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: If this prevails or do not
correct itself, then what we will do is we will reschedule
Lisa for our next meeting and hopefully have all our technical
glitches worked out.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: I was going to say, there's
just six of us. Maybe we could put her here and put the
laptop around.
(Off-the-record discussion. Trying to fix the
projector.)
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Well, let's go. Switch the
agenda again and go to announcements. Sally, we got your
announcement, and then we will move that up right after, if
it's okay with the Board, with the Board Members, election of
officers.
Would you like to do it right after announcements?
I mean, approval of minutes? Would that be all right with you
folks? Any objections to that? No. Okay. All right. So,
let's go with approval of minute of the April 25th, 2005,
regular minutes. It has been provided in your packet.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: I would like to note the
extension. Since we were gone, I haven't had a chance to read
it, so don't we get our 30 days after we approve it, yes?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah. Okay.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: So, you are moving that
they be approved with changes possible within the next 30
days?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: By our next meeting.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Did you get the
motion?
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Any discussions?
Okay. All those in favor of approving it signify by saying
aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
Opposed.
(Silence.)
Minutes have been approved. Okay. So, we will
move now under other business, B. No, I am sorry. C,
discussion and possible action regarding election of Board
Chair and Vice-Chair. I open the floor for discussion and/or
nominations.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Mr. Chair, I would like to
nominate Mike Victorino for a second term as Chair and Ken
Okamura as second term as Vice-Chair. And may I say I have
appreciated the fairness and openness to communication that
both of these gentlemen have displayed, and so I place their
names in nomination.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: I second.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: It's been moved and seconded.
Any other nominations? Do I have any other nominations?
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: I think that's a great one.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Do we have a motion to
close the nominations?
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Move to close the
nomination.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Second.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. It's been moved and
seconded. And all those in favor of first the Vice-Chair
Kenneth Okamura signify by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
Okay. I said aye, too. I am sorry. Okay. And
all those in favor of Michael Victorino as Chair?
(Chorus of ayes.)
And I didn't say opposed. Anybody opposed?
(Silence.)
I apologize. Okay. Thank you very much for your
confidence, ladies and gentlemen. We appreciate it, both Ken
and I. Ken, I will let you share a few words now.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Thank you. Appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Are we ready, ladies?
Not yet. Well, we will keep moving along the docket. We have
the testimony now, and I don't want to get started with that
in case we get started with this.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: I can wait. Go ahead.
I am sorry.
(Boardmember Helm arrived at the meeting.)
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Unfinished business. I am
doing this chop sui, so, please, I apologize. Why don't we do
unfinished business, and I would like, if everybody is okay,
update of status of Pookela well. That way I am giving that
time. And let the record show that Stacy Helm is now in
attendance. Good morning, Stacy.
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: Sorry. Good morning.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Good morning, Stacy.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: If you would like, I will
give you enough room to sit there, Alva.
MR. NAKAMURA: Good morning, Mr. Chair and Board
Members. On Pookela well, the latest is, is that the
contractor's up at the site. He's cleared all of the trees
and brush surrounding the well site and getting prepared to
begin construction of the control house and other facilities
that will be necessary for the Pookela well.
The pump and motors, as reported last time, was
ordered and is on track. And at this point in time, we do not
see any other impediments that would, in any way, slow down
the completion of this well. So, at this point in time,
that's kind of where it stands right now on Pookela.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any questions? Okay.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Any discussion about -- any
further discussion about the -- the usage of it? Are we going
to supplement some of the surface water with it? Is that it?
MR. NAKAMURA: I don't think that has been
completely decided yet. As you know, initially, this was done
to put -- kind of the backup to the surface water, and then
later on, I guess, if additional needs are required, then
maybe we will have to start taking a look and see how much of
a contribution this well would make to the overall water
supply.
But I don't think -- we haven't really talked
about that yet.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Well, do you think we ought
to be looking at the chemistry mixture of the waters?
MR. NAKAMURA: We will definitely look at the
chemistry, yes.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: When do you suppose we will
start with that?
MR. NAKAMURA: We haven't really had a chance to
talk about that. The focus has primarily been trying to get
the contractor and the order of the materials and everything
on track. That's the thing that's going to really make or
break the completion time for the project.
So, now that that has been kind of cleared, you
know, that's something that we might continue to take a look
at and determining exactly how much of a contribution we will
be using from the well to supply Upcountry.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Are we going to do
outsourcing for the chemistry portion?
MR. NAKAMURA: What?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Are we going to outsource?
MR. NAKAMURA: I am not sure about that.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Is that something the Board
should discuss and see if we come up with some
recommendations?
MR. NAKAMURA: Maybe the Director can answer that.
I'm not real clear on that.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: You are telling us something
like that should be directed to the Director.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Director, the question
was has any consideration been given for outsourcing of the
chemical testing and the mixture of the water? Has any
thought been given to that?
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Well, if we were to do that, it
would certainly have to be done by some outside --
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Mr. Chair, I think the
reporter is having difficulty picking it up. I see her
stretching.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. George, I am sorry.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: I could barely hear also,
George.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: If you could speak up,
Mr. Tengan, please.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Well, in order to do -- to do
that kind of work, we would need to get some consultant from
the outside to do that analysis. We don't have that expertise
in-house. So, if we were to do that, we would have to go
outside.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: When do you expect to start
looking at that? Because that may hold up getting the well on
line, too, so that's why I was asking.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Well, I don't know that it will
hold up getting the well on line. As far as, you know, the
issues that are -- that we are dealing with Upcountry now, my
estimation would be that if we were to mix the surface water
with the groundwater, it would improve the situation and not
make it worse.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Well, we went to several
seminars on the subject of mixing the water, and I think it's
something that we all ought to discuss openly and put on the
agenda.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Well, we couldn't do that. We
couldn't do any kind of analysis until we got the pumps
installed and we have the ability to pump water out of the
well anyway.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: I would hope you would have
the chemistry studies done before you start to mix it.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: We will take that under
consideration.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Thank you, Mr. Tengan. Okay.
Thank you. Any other questions? Are we ready yet, ladies?
No. Okay.
Excuse me if we are jumping all around. I am
trying to prevent us getting into a long discussion. I know,
Rick, you are ready to go, but I don't want to get started and
then these guys are ready. So, if you don't mind, I am going
to do one more item, and if they are not ready, I will call
you up.
Okay. I will go to unfinished business. I will
direct you to Report 05-12, on page 75 and 76, Funding for
Improvements and Expansion Projects.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Mr. Chair, Helene will be doing
that presentation.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Right there, Helene.
Go ahead and sit right there. Before we do that, let me also
put in the records that also in attendance is our Board
Secretary, Cathy Howard, our esteemed attorney, Corp Counsel
Ed Kushi, and also our Director, Mr. George Tengan. So, I
apologize for leaving that out earlier. Go ahead, Helene.
MS. KAU: Thank you. I do believe that you
received it in your packet. Holly had prepared for George --
Holly and George had prepared a description -- a detailed
description of how we fund improvement and expansion projects.
If there are any questions?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Page 75 and 76, is that
correct, of the packet?
MS. KAU: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Johansen.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: First of all, back on
April 28th, we received, as part of our packet attached to the
agenda, a list -- detailed list of the breakdown of
improvement and expansion that's projected through fiscal year
2012. And I'm trying to square the figures on expansion in
that accounting with what the Director has said are the
available funds through the water system development fund to
cover expansion projects.
I look at '05 and '06, for instance, on page 17 of
that accounting, and I see that they are about $11,980,000 in
expansion. And the Director's letter says that they are
currently budgeted for about 5 million in water system
development fund revenues, and that water system development
fund defrays the Department's cost for water system
improvements, which are necessary to increase the service
capacity in the Board's water system, increase service
capacity as a result of new water consumers or additional
demand by existing consumers.
Those two figures do not compute, and I would
appreciate -- there's a lot of work gone into this, and I
thank you for that. But I would appreciate an explanation as
to how those two figures can be reconciled.
MS. KAU: If I may distribute a breakdown of
fiscal year 2005 projects, that may clarify a bit further.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Why don't you go ahead.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: I have the same question
about 2006-2007, where the total projected expenditures for
expansion are 11,605,000. And again, we have a projected
figure for revenue from the water use and development fund of
$5 million. So, the same question I ask in regard to '06-'07
as well.
MS. KAU: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Go ahead, Helene.
MS. KAU: I can't respond with regards to '06 and
'07 projects. I don't have that detail before me. But I do
believe that the Department had planned some large-scale
projects in the future, which were to be partially funded
by -- through state loans or forms of funding other than the
water system development fee alone.
But, with regards to getting back to the fiscal
year '05 projects, as you can see on this breakdown that we
have provided, fiscal year '05 projects, which are funded by
the water system development fee, totaled 4.5 million. And
that's pretty consistent with our typical $5 million per year
that we expect from water system development fees.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Johansen, does that --
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Well, it will take me some
time to absorb --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: -- where the additional
$6,980,000 is projected to come from. Without spending a few
minutes with the information we just passed out, I don't
understand that.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Well, maybe what I can
suggest, at this point, if you would take the time to review
this 2005 and at least give a better insight for all of us.
And at our next meeting, if it is possible, for 2006-2007, the
breakdown where these monies -- I think what Mr. Johansen is
asking -- Member Johansen is asking is where these monies are
coming from and what are they being led to. I think the
question has been all long is with the rate increase being
instituted as of July 1, does that rate increase go to
expansion or improvement, or does that go to just improvements
and upgrading of our system. And I think that's the -- that's
what you have been looking for, Mr. Johansen, basically?
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: There seems to be as well
some discrepancy between new service expansion and existing
service expansion. And I think if that is the case, we need
more information about that.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So, if you can, Helene --
MS. KAU: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: -- bring that. And we will
defer that. And then please review this, so at least you have
a little better understanding, and then we will go from there.
Okay? Any other questions for Helene? Thank you very much.
MS. KAU: You are welcome.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: And I think Maui Nui
Botanical Gardens is ready to go.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: It works.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: It works. Go ahead. I would
like, at this point, to introduce Lisa Raymond from Maui Nui
Botanical Gardens. She has a slide presentation, about 10 or
15 minutes, so if we can all put our attention to the slides.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: I am going to do a
little talk first, and we will get to the slides.
Thank you all for your patience. I am sorry for
the difficulties. Thanks. I hope it hasn't been too much. I
wanted to come in today and kind of reintroduce myself. We
are a partner with the Water Department and the County of
Maui, and I just want to kind of catch you up on what we are
doing.
We are doing so much, that I am only picking some
bits and pieces. And if you want to find out more about some
of our programs, and you want me to come back, I am happy to.
Just a little background, and I have this written
up in your documents, but we are a 501(c)3. We were
established in 1994. And this July 1st will be our fourth
anniversary at the garden, and we are involved with the
restoration and expansion of the Maui Nui Botanical Gardens.
Sorry about that.
Our mission is to foster an appreciation and
understanding of the living Hawaiian Islands of today,
emphasizing the native Hawaiian plants of Maui Nui, which
includes Maui, Molokai, Lanai and Kahoolawe, and providing a
center for environmental education, Hawaiian cultural
expression, conservation, biological study and recreation.
Is this working? So, I have been actually working
with the Water Department about 15 years, way back with Noland
Perriera, and he established the Xeriscape Action Committee.
And for a long time, we have been looking at the Maui Nui or
the Botanical Garden as a place to do a demonstration project
for the community.
But some of you remember it. We used to be the
Zoo and Botanical Garden, and it was established almost 30
years ago. Next year, it will be 30 years. It was a terrible
zoo, but it was a great Botanical Garden. And it was the
first in the state to grow native Hawaiian plants exclusively.
It's also the only botanical garden in the state
that's in a coastal dune system. So, we can do conservation
of the costal and dry forest plants that many other Botanical
Gardens can't do because they are in a wet valley areas and
they just don't have the right habitat. So, you know, it's a
really unique thing for this particular garden.
And because we are in a dry coastal area, we are
actually on a sand dune, we -- you know, xeriscaping is
something that's really important, especially for the Central
Maui area, and it makes us a excellent site to do a xeriscape
demonstration garden.
I think Halawa Xeriscape Garden gets like
30 inches of rain a year, which doesn't really qualify it to
be a dry area. So, but -- so, the zoo was closed about 10
years ago, and we have been working on the restoration. In
2002, this Department funded our greenhouse and shade house
structures, and I will show you some pictures of those in a
little bit.
And, so, now we are doing coastal and dry forest
restoration work. We are working with Pu'u o Kali and the
State Natural Area Reserve among some of our projects. So, we
grow also plants for endangered species conservation, for
distribution to the community, and for public sale for the
benefit of the garden. Next plant sale is August 27th,
9:00 to 12:00, if you are interested.
So, currently, we are working with the Department,
and we are a distribution site for the xeriscape plants
brochures that the Water Department has developed. And we
work a lot with homeowners, with landscape contractors, with
maintenance people, to, you know, help them make good decision
about what to plant, talk to them about, you know, saving
water, all kinds of things. So, we just -- people just drop
in all the time, and they come to our events. We usually have
a lot of experts there to help answer questions and things
like that.
We also distribute nursery information to people
who are looking to buy plants, because we only do plants sales
just a few times a year as a benefit to the garden. But we
include other smaller growers, and we also give walk-ins
information on how to contact these people for resources of
native plants.
So, we are -- as we do the restoration of the
garden, we are incorporating xeriscape techniques. So, we are
retrofitting with drip irrigation systems. We do a lot with
mulch and taking out grassy areas and creating more planting
beds and things like that. And that's all part of the ongoing
restoration and demonstration.
We work with the landscape industry to promote
water conservation, and we do the conservation work that I
mentioned before. We also do two main events, which is our
Earth Day event, which was in April. We have over 30
conservation organizations that participate in that event.
So, it's kind of a one-stop shop. If you are interested in
seeing who is doing what in conservation, that's a great time
to come and talk with these people.
Our other big event is our Arbor Day tree
giveaway. We work with this Department, with the electric
company, and we get funding through the Kaulunani, which is
part of the Department of Land and Natural Resources, to
grow -- we grow 500 plants. The DLNR grows 500 plants. The
electric company buys the DLNR's plants. We combine them. We
give away over a thousand trees, and we have been doing that
about three years now. Really a successful program.
We also invite about 15 other nonprofit
organizations that are tree friendly like Outdoor Circle and
organizations like that to have demonstrations -- I mean, you
know, to talk with people and give out their information, and
that's been another fun, successful event that we are doing.
Let's see.
Our newsletter, which you got a copy of, and Mike,
you are a member, so you get yours directly.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, yes.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: We distribute about
1500 of those, and this is statewide. We have members on the
mainland also. And then we are working with the community
college and the high schools. We do service learning
projects. We do job training through Alu Like, through
AmeriCorps, and some other programs. And, so, we have a lot
of ties with the schools and with the other community
organizations.
So, in this coming year, we are very excited about
working on obtaining a long-term lease. We are looking at a
30-year lease. We currently just have a license to occupy.
So, we are working on that, and we are also hoping to acquire
the four acres that's next door between us and the YMCA, which
will allow for immediate expansion of our nursery, which we
are kind of -- kind of boxed in in the corner here. We can't
really expand because of physical setbacks.
So, we are looking at expanding our nursery, which
will help with conservation work and also with fund raising
and also giving out plants to the community. In the four year
that we have been there, we have given away -- this is just
not counting our Arbor Day giveaways -- over 4,000 plants to
the community. So, mostly to nonprofits, to beautification
projects, and these range from Hana to Lahaina, so, really
wide distribution of plants.
So, we are working on our long-term lease, and we
are also this winter going to be installing a new irrigation
system. Our old system is quite -- oh, it's just a nightmare,
so we are going to be putting in a new automated system. And
then once we get that in, we will be putting individual
installations of different types of drip and irrigation
systems, so that homeowners can come and see what does it look
like, and how does it operate. And, you know, hopefully we
can do some testing of different products and things like
that. So, that will be part of our ongoing demonstration,
community demonstration garden.
In our future, we would like to -- once our
infrastructure is in place, I think we are going to be just
doing a lot more education with the community. I have talked
to the Hotel Association, and they said they would like the,
you know, resorts to start thinking about saving water and
making better choices in their landscaping and things like
that. So, there's a lot more work that we can be doing as far
as educating the community and working more with our existing
partners.
And I would love, at some point, maybe, to share a
position with the Water Department and with us to have
somebody who can -- who is really a specialist in irrigation,
and who can work directly with homeowners, or landscape
companies, or resorts to, you know, teach them how to do
proper irrigation, and how to make better choices with plants
and things like that. And that's something I would like to
see -- think about for the future.
And then we also would like to build a
multi-purpose building as we are actually working out of a
trailer. And once we get our long-term lease, I think we will
move towards that. But that will have office space, a
library, classroom space, meeting space, and things like that.
So, it will be a much more publicly accessible project. So,
that's what I have got written so far, and I would like to
just show you some of our slides here.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Sure.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: So, this is our front
entrance here. How many of you have been to the garden?
Yeah. Okay. This is for those of you that haven't.
And some of these are very recent pictures, so you
will see exactly -- whoops. Okay. We will go next. So,
there is our front entrance. We have got some interesting
potted plants and things. And when you do xeriscaping, you
put your plants that are -- that have higher water
requirements, you know, in one place, and then medium
requirements, and low requirements. And, so, the front
entrance is kind of our wet zone, so it's very tropical
looking with our taro plants and some of the ginger.
We have some of these mounds. These are our
coastal and dry forest plants. That's the native white poppy,
the Pua Kala. This is looking back up into Manoa Valley.
People are always surprised when they come in --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: West Maui, Iao, not Manoa.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: I am sorry.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Just a slight correction.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: The person who came and
visited me this morning was from Manoa. It's on my mind. I'm
sorry.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: No problem.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: But it's actually some
quite beautiful views. This is probably one of our most
popular trees. This is a variegated banana tree that they
call manini which means striped like the fish. And it's the
only variegated banana in the world. One of the things we are
working on is a rare Hawaiian banana collection. And it's
delicious to eat.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Are you going to have some
of those on sale in August?
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: We try. We usually
have one or two, but we have people camping out for them.
They are a little pricy, but bring your beach chair. The
Kukui tree, our state tree. One of my favorite trees, which
is now being threatened by a scale insect, so that's something
we have to be working on this next year. That's the male
flower of the Hala tree, the hinano.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Do you also teach people how
to treat them? I don't mean to interrupt you, but since we
are on the subject. Do you teach people how to treat them,
like when you figure out to treat that scale?
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: We have been doing
experiments internally. We have found nothing that works, and
it will probably end up being a biological control. But
that's going to take some money and lobbying, but we have the
largest Hala forest in the State in the Hana area.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Right.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: And it's just, in the
last two years, I have seen it just be devastated. So -- and
this will not stop on Maui. It will spread to all the
islands, because we have no controls, you know.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Right.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: And it will blow from
place to place. So, this is a statewide issue that is of
great concern to me. So, our Wiliwili tree. Great drought
tolerant tree. And people say that natives aren't colorful,
they are not interesting, but I am here to prove you wrong.
So, our State flower, the Ma'o hau hele. We have in our
collection the entire gene pool of East Maui. It was extinct
in the wild. We were able to save -- National Tropical
Botanical Gardens saved 97 seeds, and we have five seedlings
that were taken out before the goats ate them. So, this is
one of our gene bank projects.
And Art Medeiros did plant the seedlings from
these guys back out, and they did just bloom just in the last
month. It was on the front page of the paper, so that's one
of our successful projects, a beautiful white hibiscus, very
fragrant.
Some of the red hibiscus. This is right outside
our office. My favorite Naupaka, cast iron plant. Everybody
should plant Naupaka. Beautiful 'Ape plant, relative of the
taro. This is our native cotton, another great drought
resistant plant, beautiful flowers. Part of our sugar cane
collection. And the poster that you folks got, we have sweet
potatoes in the bottom, bananas and sugarcane mixed in there.
We have 40 sugarcane varieties. This is just a
few of them. And in the poster, you have 27 varieties
represented. And they are used -- a lot of our plants are
given away to cultural events for ceremonial use, and
Kahoolawe is one of the organizations that comes regularly for
important plant resources.
Our sweet potato collection, we have about 15
varieties. Some of them are pretty good producers. Our
native caper, the Maiapilo, beautiful, blooms at night. It's
a big flower, too, very drought tolerant. Grows in the Kanio
area in the lava fields. Another nice border plant and ground
cover is 'Akia and the 'Ulei. Again, very drought tolerant
and lots of different habitats it grows in.
'Ilima, you are familiar with that. Ilie'e, being
a plumbago, groundcover also. You see it out in the Kanio
area on the sides of the road. It's growing, and it's doing
very well.
And this is a new -- we just dedicated this about
three weeks ago. We worked with Hui Malama Learning Center
and the Hawaiian Canoe Club, and they installed this taro
collection. It's about 33 varieties of the 60 known
varieties. So, we have more to add. But the one intact
collection was recently eaten by pigs on Kauai. It's gone.
So, now we are helping, and with our connections,
going throughout the State to send back the varieties. So,
you know, it's really important that we keep backups of these
in as many different sites as possible so we don't lose
something.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: If you plant all the
varieties together, don't they cross pollinate?
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: They don't usually
produce seeds. Most of the line of plants are sterile, and so
they are only by vegetative propagation.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Is that because the insects
are gone?
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: No, it's because they
have been cultivated for hundreds of thousands of years. So,
they lost their ability to -- they just don't need to do it,
because people have been doing it for them for so long.
One of my favorites, 'Apu wai. It's the water
cup, and you can actually see the water that's held in the
leaves. It's used for ceremonial -- it's a pure water, never
touched the ground, so it's used for medicine and ceremonies
and things like that.
Black stemmed Lauloa 'ele'ele, Piko lehua api'i.
Api'i means to curl and it has ruffles on the bottom of the
leaves. 'Elepaio, a beautiful variegated one. A lot of these
are used in landscaping. They are very ornamental. 'Uki'uki
berry makes a nice blue dye. Isn't that just gorgeous? And
this is a hale that -- well, this is Francis Sinenci and his
indigenous architecture students. And this was their
graduation project was to build this hale here. And we are
working with the Maui Garden Club to do the landscaping around
it.
We just installed the irrigation, which is all
underground, and just started initial planting. But that
will, over the next year, evolve into more of an interpretive
site. And here is some of our volunteers. This was just
Wednesday, and it was yesterday, working in our nursery, which
you folks paid for, so I just wanted to show you that.
This is our greenhouse which has a mist system in
it, and a lot of plants for the Arbor Days giveaway are coming
up. And then our greenhouse here, which is full of a lot of
the restoration plants that we are growing, a lot of our
seedlings. And that's Becky Lau, one of our volunteers.
This is our Earth Day event. There is the Mayor
there. Some of the booths. We do cultural activities, tapa
making, cordage making. We had kapa and lei making, spear
throwing, and ulu maika at our last one. It's just a blast,
and it's free, so come. Bring your kids, grandchildren. It's
a lot of fun.
There is our Arbor Day tree giveaway. And, in
fact, I think we are up for an award this year for this from
Kaulunani, because they think we have done such a great job
with it.
And some volunteers. This is the Alternative
Learning Center kids. They come usually weekly and do
different activities from the high schools there. And that's
it.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Very nice.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Thank you.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: So, that's what we have
been up to. And again, it was kind of quick. And if there's
anything else you folks are interested in about what we are
doing or have suggestions on where you would like to see us
go, I'd love to hear from you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I would hope, if members have
not attended and gone down there and walked around, it is much
more enlightening when you walk around live than these slides
do any justice. But it is a beautiful place, and I have been
a member, and I enjoy going to the different functions when I
have a chance. That's my biggest problem, but I whole
heartily support what you folks do. Thanks.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Thank you.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: It's a very great thing,
and I am very happy to take advantage of all your tree
giveaways and all of that. Thank you.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: And it's location,
location, location. That's the thing. It's such a beautiful
spot.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Let me ask you a question.
The 30-year lease -- you are asking for the 30-year lease at
this particular location, right?
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: And hopefully the four
acres next door.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Next door.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: Yeah, yeah.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: The addition to the YMCA.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: At some point, we would
also like to maybe acquire either stewardship over the dune
system that's in the central part of Keopuolani Park, because
that has great potential for restoration, but, you know, I
think maybe we want to go maybe a piece at a time.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Buy one at a time.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: Yeah. I have the most
fabulous staff working for me. They are just really amazing.
We have a small staff, and everybody works really, really hard
to do all these things that we do. So --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Thank you. Michele.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: The lease is with the County?
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: With the County, yeah.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Do you foresee any obstacles?
I mean, it all seems very --
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: Unless somebody wants
that four acres. We might have to --
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Or in getting the long-term
lease? It all seems very cooperative.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: The long-term lease
could be a problem. But, the exciting thing, is once we get
the long-term lease, being a nonprofit, then we can go for
bigger grants. We can set up endowment funds and things like
that. But when you are just --
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Has it been presented to
the County yet?
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: We have to do a survey,
and we have to put in an application. And because of all the
construction going on, we are like number 20 on the survey
list for the company that we are working with. So, it's just
taking a little longer than we expected.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: I was curious about
xeriscape. That's dry cultivation?
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: X-E-R-I, xeriscape.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: And that includes drip
irrigation?
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: Yeah, it's making good
selections with plants. You don't want -- you want something
that's adapted to your area. And then drip irrigation, it's
limiting the amount of turf that you have, because turf is a
high water user, making larger -- mulching, making decisions
like that.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: I was just -- we were at
the AWWA conference in San Francisco last week, and they
mentioned how far superior drip irrigation is to open -- I
don't know what you call the other stuff. But that may be
something that we want to emphasize in this County.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Any other comments or
questions? Thank you, Lisa, very much for being here.
MS. SCHATTENBURG-RAYMOND: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: And we will call upon you in
the future for some more information. So, thank you very
much. We do appreciate it.
Okay. Now, I am going to try to go back to the
top and go back to Item Number IV -- Number VI, I should say.
Actually, I correct myself. I am going back to item Number V,
public testimony. We didn't do that.
So, is there anyone in the audience that wants to
give public testimony?
Cathy, do you know of anybody that wants to give
testimony? I know, Rick, yours is coming up next, so --
Okay. Hearing none, I move on to unfinished
business, Item A, which would be Communication 05-02. Rick,
would you -- and I apologize for keeping you waiting so long.
Kind of the way things go sometimes. I do apologize. Go
ahead.
MR. STRINI: What?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: You want to say anything
or --
MR. STRINI: Only that the results of the staff's
investigation are consistent with what I reported.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
MR. STRINI: And I basically would like those
conditions waived and be like these other people who got
theirs approved.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: The communication that Rick
is referring to is on page four. There's a letter from -- to
us from the Board, from the Director of the Water Department.
Mr. Director, do you have any comments? I can
read what you are saying here. Any additional comments or
discussion?
DIRECTOR TENGAN: I will let Alva handle that.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Alva, would you come up,
please? We have your report in front of us, the request and
the results of the staff's investigation. Got that there,
page four.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Is there another page to
this?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think that's it, yeah?
MR. STRINI: That's it.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: One page, only one page. So,
I think it's consistent with what we discussed.
MR. NAKAMURA: Yes, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
MR. NAKAMURA: I guess after looking at this whole
situation, I think pretty consistent, we are -- we attempted
to include in your report all of the background material that
we could find including minutes of the past Board meetings and
what we had in the file.
And as a result of that, what you see in this
report is what we, you know, determined from reading all of
that. I'm not really clear as to why, maybe, some of the
other subdivisions were approved. Because if you read the
results of what I submitted to the Board, after we did our
investigation, it wasn't all that clear as to what the
rationale was behind the actions that the Board took. But
nonetheless, it did approve the subdivisions. That is
established from our investigation.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Do we have any
questions or comments?
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Yeah, I got some.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Mr. Okamura.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: I think on page four,
number one, there is a difference, I think, in that one, in
that it's a three-lot subdivision, and all three lots would
have been served by a private water system. The one that
Mr. Strini is asking for is a hybrid, you know, with lots on a
private water system and the third lot being served by the
water meter.
MR. STRINI: The existing water meter.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Yeah. But I think the
Department's position is well founded in that once he -- he's
asking for a subdivision. Okay. And since part of the lot
would still be part of the group, it's not, you know, a
stand-alone lot. It's part of the subdivision.
And once that becomes -- it should meet the
subdivision -- that particular meter should meet the
subdivision requirements, which is what the Department is
saying, I think. So, it's a difficult situation. I think, in
the past, the Board did -- the Board did grant approval on the
subdivision, where there was like a two lot -- a hybrid, like,
you know, the one that Mr. Strini is asking for.
But I was thinking, you know, the way the rules
are written, it becomes a subdivision, so it should follow
the -- you know, the requirements for the meter should follow
the subdivision rules, you know, either that or the rules
should be changed.
So, I think it's, you know, the Department's
position that the subdivision request be denied is correct,
although the -- in the past, the Board has approved a similar
situation. I don't think, like Mr. Nakamura said, there
wasn't a good rationale as to why, you know, that was done,
you know. And I don't know. To me, you know, just because
they did it in the past, that doesn't mean that we need to
do -- you know, we need to agree on the same -- on the same
grounds, because I can't -- you know, by looking at what was
written, I can see that once -- you know, he's asking to be a
subdivision, and that meter doesn't meet the requirements for
a subdivision. And that's -- the Department is asking for the
upgrades that would meet those requirements.
MR. STRINI: Can I say something?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Go ahead, Mr. Strini.
MR. STRINI: The meter has always been deemed
adequate for fire protection, for everything, for 13 acres. I
am reducing the size of that meter consumption down to a
five-acre lot. I am not asking for water to be used in my
other two lots, and they are trying to hold me hostage to put
in improvements to 6,000 feet of waterline. For what? For
reduced consumption?
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: I don't think it's a
personal thing that they are doing. I think it's the way the
rules are written.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: No, no.
MR. STRINI: No, the rules are not written that
way now.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: There are no rules on this.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: I think there are other
people, you know, that made the requirements.
MR. STRINI: Not in the subdivision.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: There was, you know, an
exception made in the past.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Can we have a statement
about the rule?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: There is no rule.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: About what?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Hang on. One moment, please.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: On page four of the rules,
actually, page five --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Uh-huh.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: -- in regards to
subdivision, it talks about water mains and appurtenances or
whatever. It says like a two-unit subdivision, the minimum
size of water main, one-and-a-half-inch limited to 200 feet,
and six inches limited to 600 feet. It looks like a three to
12-unit subdivision, it will be like four inches limited to
200 feet or six inches limited to 600 feet. That's why the
Department is saying that they should put in that six-inch
line from this. Is that correct or --
MR. NAKAMURA: That's correct.
MR. STRINI: But the subdivision was handled years
ago. This was okayed by the Water Department years ago.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Okay. According to what
was said in the last meeting, it wasn't -- you know, the
Department didn't have any say in the subdivision being
granted originally because of the rules of the way the County
Code is written.
And I think there's a problem there that, you
know, somebody has to follow-up on.
MR. STRINI: You have to change the rules.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Yeah, but the Water
Department had no say in the previous subdivision, and that's
the point that the Department was trying to make.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: May I make a note right here,
that the section that Mr. Okamura has read from was from our
Department of -- Rules and Regulations from the Department of
Water, County of Maui, on page four --
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Page five.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Excuse me. Correction. Page
five, Section 2-3, water main and appurtenances.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Yeah, appurtenances,
whatever.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Just so that we note where
that was read from.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: But we don't have that in
front of us.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: I think the Department was
following the rules.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: He has his book. He has his
book with -- this was the book given to all of us, this book,
Ralph. So, we all have this. That's a big book to carry
around.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: I wasn't at the last
meeting, so --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Miss Parsons.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: What size pipeline is in
there right now going to his meter?
MR. CHANG: I will give you more background in the
subdivision. Peter Martin and Bob Horcajo, back in the early
'90's, purchased like probably plus or minus 12 lots, and they
were all mishmash. Some of them were like really small. Some
were huge. And what they did was they consolidated the
property into one giant piece, resubdivided into a beautiful
cul-de-sac developed style subdivision.
And they went through the consolidation and
resubdivision process, which is what we call a fast track,
which requirement was the Water Department has no ability to
comment on the subdivision, because the rules -- this fast
track rule was to adjust property lines in the event that
someone, for instance, built a garage over somebody's
property, and so the County didn't want to deal with these
things.
But what's happening is developers like Horcajo,
they kind of used it differently. They had like 12 ugly lots
that was all landlocked, consolidated, resubdivided, made a
nice cul-de-sac. And because of this fast track rule, the
Water Department couldn't require fire protection, which we
would have required, the same thing that we required of
Mr. Strini. So, now all these lots are created without fire
protection, but they got meters, which is like -- I guess in
your case, like 3,000 feet away from your property.
MR. STRINI: 6,000.
MR. CHANG: The water meter is 3,000 feet.
MR. STRINI: Oh, okay. 3,000.
MR. CHANG: The improvements would have been 6,000
like you said.
MR. STRINI: Right.
MR. CHANG: So, here we are.
MR. STRINI: I think what she's asking, we have a
four-inch -- I believe, four-inch main that goes all the way
up.
MR. CHANG: There is a four-inch on Hana Highway.
MR. STRINI: Yeah.
MR. CHANG: But that's inadequate for --
MR. STRINI: And every time we have got a building
permit down on Manawai, they have given us adequate fire
protection stamp of approval, a final on every building down
there. So, they basically are saying you have adequacy in
front of us according to the rules and regulations of the
Department of Water Supply.
And as it turns out, the Director is the duly
authorized representative. Whether it's adequate pressure,
storage, and pipeline size to supply water to meet the fire
flow, domestic and irrigation demands for water without
determining existing consumers.
So, every building that's down there has been
okayed with the final by the Water Department, signed off, and
by the fire protection.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: I got a couple questions for
you. You are just looking for this water meter to be on one
lot, and the rest are going to be on a private system?
MR. STRINI: Exactly.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Is there a tank system
that's going to be in that vicinity?
MR. STRINI: For the existing lots, they will meet
the fire protection --
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: They will.
MR. STRINI: -- standards, actually.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Well, let me --
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: I am not finished. I am not
finished.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Well, hang on. Hold on,
Miss Parsons. If there are other questions, okay, come on.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: My other question is
directed for Mr. Kushi. If we have set a precedent, do we
have any liability for not going forward, if we have already
set a precedent? Is that an issue that could be taken to
court?
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: Well, let me go back
for a moment. Anything can be taken to court. What is before
you is an appeal and a recommendation to the Director. The
final decision as of now is with the Director.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Okay.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: This being a
subdivision, if the Director's position stands, he will then
tell Public Works not to approve the subdivision. Okay. He
can then appeal the Public Works Director's decision to the
BA.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Okay.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: So, he has an avenue.
Or he could take Director Tengan's decision to court, which we
would, of course, defend. The issue is subdivision. The
Director of Public Works cannot move until they get word from
the Department of Water Supply.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Would you be willing to put
a tank on your property where the meter is in order to have
enough fire flow --
MR. STRINI: For?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: -- as well.
MR. STRINI: For what? For the existing
buildings?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: For the lot that's going to
have the water meter that we are having the problem with.
MR. STRINI: Uh-huh.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Because the rest is private,
so we don't have any say in the private area. But it's the
one that has the water meter. Would you be willing to put a
tank on that property -- piece of property to house for the
fire flow?
MR. STRINI: Would I need a tank, or would I need
sprinklers?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: You would have to have a
larger line, and they would have to determine whether you can
have a larger line. I think you need one-and-a-half inch for
the sprinkler system. I don't think they can upgrade in this
area. That's their call. But a tank would probably -- might
be an answer. That is up to Mr. Chang.
MR. CHANG: Again, if he wants to do a tank on
site, it wouldn't comply with our regulations.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Before we continue, any other
Board Member, just so that the conversation doesn't stay with
only two Board Members. Do other Board Members have
questions? Michele.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: To George and Alva. All of
the meters for the lots on this road are up at the top?
MR. CHANG: Direct on Hana Highway.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: And each individual lot owner
has their own pipe coming from their meter to their lot -- to
serve their lot?
MR. CHANG: The Department did not inspect what
they did. We just supplied meters.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Because the Department's
responsibility, in a sense, ends at the meter. It's up to the
lot owner at that point. Whether the meter is five feet from
your house or 300 feet from their property, that's up to the
lot owner to figure out how to get --
MR. CHANG: Correct.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Okay. Can you guys or the
Director, Corp Counsel --
MS. HOWARD: I am sorry. I am not picking you up.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Sorry. Can you give some
explanation or rationale for the -- why the Department doesn't
like the hybrid system of one lot being on a -- in a
subdivision like this, and like the previous ones, one lot
created by the subdivision continuing to be served by a meter
and the others being private?
I mean, it obviously goes back a while, but what
is your sense of the reasoning to not allow those?
MR. CHANG: If I can speak on behalf of the
Director, he can correct me if I am wrong. But it goes back
to what Ken was saying. The rule and regs requires, if the
Department -- Water Department is going to recommend final
subdivision approval, rules and regs, which include fire
protection, domestic service, irrigation has to comply with
the requirements of the Department for the subdivision, which
is bringing in the waterline, standpipe, fire, service
laterals, water meters on each property that it serves, and
basically trying to supplement the rules and regs.
It's just like the only thing we can think of, as
far as in the past where we did have private systems, the
private systems are not maintained. You end up asking the
Department to take over for hardship on the people who buy
into these things. They are not sure what they are getting
into. They don't know how to maintain it. It's expensive to
maintain them. We get these sad stories coming to the
Department to help.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Do you ever see, like in
these cases -- not necessarily these cases, but in cases like
this where the lots that are supposed to be on the private
system actually tap into the metered lot?
MR. CHANG: We haven't really investigated it, but
it's a real possibility to have. In case it fails, then where
else do you go? There's a meter right there.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Hang on.
MR. CHANG: It's illegal.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Is there any other Board
Member, before I recognize the Board Members who have asked
questions?
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: I would like to hear an
immediate response.
MR. STRINI: My immediate response is that is an
illegal situation, and you could lose your meter. That's why
nobody does that.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: I don't think anyone can say
that nobody does it.
MR. STRINI: Well, I can speak for our
subdivision.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Well, I believe you and maybe
others on the road --
MR. STRINI: And there's other people in our
subdivision. One other thing, too, is the irony of this --
and this may not have any effect, but the Board also approved
roadway lots, putting a meter on the roadway lots in a number
of these situations in Manawai, but yet they didn't require
them to expand the line all the way up to the Hana Highway.
So, what kind of irony is that? There's two
owners like myself that got approval, and two other owners
that got roadway lot approvals. So, they still got the water.
They can still use it for irrigation.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Ralph.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: I would like to know, in
line with what you are saying, what the essential distinction
is between the cases that have been decided before by the
Board and this case. And if that distinction rests on a
misinterpretation of some rule or practice, I'd like to know
what that is.
And I would also like to know if there is a
discrepancy in the rules that is creating something other than
a fair situation, how we could remedy that. How we could
change the rule, if such exists, so that we have equal
treatment, and we have fairness, and we aren't just haggling
over what really aren't the essential points.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Let me say, first of all,
answer the first question about precedents and what has been
decided by past boards. It is difficult to understand, if you
read the minutes, what their thinking at that moment was. So,
that's one of those, I can't tell you what the past -- other
than what I read in front of me like you. So, I can't answer
that question.
Making rules accord and doing changes is maybe
something that needs to be worked on, but in this case, we
need to focus on what we have right now. And, so, anybody
else? If not, Miss Parsons and then Mr. Okamura.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Now, I am not in favor of
this, but how many lots are -- how many lots are you
subdividing here?
MR. STRINI: I am taking one lot and turning it
into three.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Okay. I am not in favor of
this, but have you considered a private -- drilling a well?
MR. STRINI: We have a well.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: That services the other --
MR. STRINI: Yeah.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Why not service the other
ones and just take it off the meter.
MR. STRINI: All three?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Uh-huh. You can the take
four, and you fly under the guise of the -- you know.
MR. STRINI: I can take four. What do you mean?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: You have four lots, and you
fly right under the Health Department and everything else.
It's the minimum amount.
MR. STRINI: For what?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: For lots for a private well
system.
MR. STRINI: Well, that's really not what I was
trying to do.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Your subdivision would go
through, and you wouldn't be -- you wouldn't have to hassle
with this. I don't -- I don't like them, but -- and I think
that they need to be really guarded, and they need to be
tested, and they need to be, you know, really thoroughly
tested, because --
MR. STRINI: Wells?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Yes. Because of the
runoffs -- and because of the runoffs and the microbio
problems and everything else, that they really need to be
worked on. But if that gets you out of having to do -- I
mean, I don't know how much this costs, but it looks like to
me it could be, what, a half a million dollars, or 200 --
6,000 feet?
MR. CHANG: 6,000 feet.
MR. STRINI: What I am trying to do here is retain
my water meter on the existing two structures and the
five-acre lot, because it's there, and I am using the water
for the house.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Yeah, but I am just saying,
you have an alternative here. If you want to just go private
with everything to get this through, I would consider that,
and deal with the water meter at some later date.
I'm not in favor of -- I'm not in favor of the
homeowners or the subdividers that are in the small
subdivisions doing the infrastructure. I think that that's
unfair. But that said, you know, and you are a small
subdivider. I don't know. They have got to follow the rules.
We have got to support them for following the rules. You have
another option.
MR. STRINI: There is no rule, though, that says
that, see?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Well, the size of the piping
does for the -- for the -- I mean, that's what they are going
on is the size of the piping to have a subdivision, and it's
not adequate. So --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. If I may, Mr. Okamura,
you had another question.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Yeah. Like the other
person got approved that had three lots, and he went private
on all three, right?
MR. STRINI: Well, the Kellys did that. They did
a roadway lot with their water meter and were able to keep
their water meter.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: I don't know about that.
But like Ginny said, for the subdivision requirements, if you
just put all three lots under a private water system, you
would get approvals, I think.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: This is an alternative for
you just to consider, because I think what -- the contentions
I am hearing, and they will decide that, is that the rules are
here. The rule is here. It's not something we arbitrarily
decided. It's here. And we back the Department with the
rules.
Now, maybe we need to change the rules, but that's
another issue and not something we can do right this moment in
time, you know.
MR. STRINI: Okay.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: And the other thing that I
have always had a quandary with is every time we bend the rule
or we give exceptions, then we open the next can of worms for
the next group to come along. And the previous groups, which
none of us were a part of, may have set some precedent, but it
doesn't mean we have to continue doing --
In other words, two wrongs never make a right.
And if we are going to continue doing that, then where do we
stop, and when do we say no to somebody and make sure the
rules are followed as so specified. Now, we change the rules.
That's another issue.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: On that exact point, I read
Peter Rice, Chair at the time, back in April of 2001 --
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: What page?
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: This is page 53. He says,
that's exactly why we need to go back and review all the
rules, have a thorough review and make changes as necessary.
This is five years ago.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Have a thorough review and
make changes, if necessary, because if we are sitting here
every month and making exceptions -- I want to read this into
the record -- and amending the rules and providing for
exceptions, then we are going to get ourselves in trouble.
And we're already deep, as I can see it, in some kind of
trouble. I don't know everybody's personal situation here on
Maui, but to me, Ron's request seems to be reasonable. What
would be required of him otherwise, and what you are here
referring to under Rule 16 is that we would waive subdivision
requirements, but he would still be required to put in the
$400,000 worth of improvement.
And then he goes on with Mr. Craddick. But
anyway, here we are five -- five years later. I think we may
have an issue down the line with the Director and the County
of detrimental reliance on previous precedents. And I think
we should be very careful about overturning the precedents
that have been established, unless and until we clarify the
rules, so that everybody knows where they stand. So, I would
vote to -- I would vote in favor of Mr. Strini.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Well, we haven't -- we
haven't had a motion. We need to have a motion before we --
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: I was voicing my opinion.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: No, no. Thank you. Thank
you. Michele.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: I am not ready to make a
motion yet. Another clarification, just reading through all
of the history on these other subdivisions, it seemed that in
the past, as with this case, the staff is recommending no.
And I realize on the first one, staff wasn't in
the loop, because it was the consolidation resubdivision. But
the staff has previously recommended the same thing that they
are recommending now, so staff's position, I don't think, has
changed on any of these.
And, so, previously, the applicants went to the
Board, and the Board approved a waiver, just like we are being
asked to today.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Uh-huh.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: So, is that correct? I want
to check with staff if that's correct? But --
MR. NAKAMURA: Yes.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Okay. And it's -- and I know
that in -- just in the short time I have been on the Board,
when applicants have come before us, we realize we are just
making a recommendation. That's all that our authority is at
this time. But we have been really careful to say we are not
setting a precedent. This is based on this applicant's
circumstances, whether it's the -- whatever the nature of the
request deals with.
So, we do have to be careful about that, and it
looks like things are -- are pushing us towards making a
decision because of these previous decisions. But we are here
being asked for an exception. And that, by its nature, is not
precedent setting to me.
We need to be consistent in what we do, but I
don't think we should be that concerned with previous Boards'
actions, because they had their rationale at that time, and
their authority was different than our authority is now.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: May I just respond briefly.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Unless we can determine
that the previous decisions of the Boards, on which we would
be basing our recommendations, differed in some respect that
makes this precedent not applicable, then I don't follow your
logic.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. I think -- and just
not to cut this, you know, back-and-forth stuff, I understand
what you are saying, Michele. You know, we have always tried
to be careful to say what we are doing is for this purpose and
for this situation. However, as you can see, it is brought
back. I don't care how you look at it --
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: -- somewhere, somewhere along
the line, when we make decisions today will come back to a
future Board for another future situation.
I agree with the statement that it's been five
years, and we still haven't changed anything. The only change
is now we are no longer semi-autonomous. We all under the
County, and we advise the Director. Really, other than that,
we basically follow the same --
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: It's still up to some
decision-making body, and we do have precedents in place.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. So, do we have a
motion on the floor one way or the other, to approve -- I am
waiting for the motion that we can take action.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: I will make a motion that we
approve based on the precedents that were set previously.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: You are saying approve a
waiver.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Approve a waiver, yes, based
on the precedents that were set in the past.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: A recommendation to the
Director --
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: A recommendation, yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: -- to the Director for
approval of this waiver?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Right.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: I second, and I would like
to propose a friendly amendment.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Go ahead.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: In line with what was
discussed in the previous cases, there are several provisos
that were added to the approval, one of which was that this be
recorded, and that the meter not ever be used for the lots
which are served by a private well.
And there were several others, that I will have to
look them up, but I would like -- I would like some help on
this, because we had several provisos in the -- that are in
the minutes, that are attached here, that seem to make sense
to me.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. I think the one
proviso you are saying, on the friendly part of the amendment
that you wanted to -- if I am correct, Mr. Johansen, is that
this water meter may not be used to enhance or to expend the
private system that they are talking about in their
subdivision.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: And that that be recorded
to run with the land.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Is that all right with the
Board to add that as an amendment to the motion?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: I would also think we should
request the -- a tank for the purpose of fire flow -- to
subsidize the fire flow, that a tank be added as part of it.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Can we have a second to that?
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Second.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: What motion are we on?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: We second the amendments
already right now. Stacy, we have gone from motion to
amending the motion, adding the first proviso, which was that
meter not be allowed to be used to enhance or expand the
private system. And the second amendment that's being added
is that the water tank be added to this for fire flow
protection.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: To meet the requirements
of fire flow --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Fire flow, yeah.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: Clarification, for
that one lot?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: For that one lot.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: For that one lot.
MR. STRINI: Is that 6,000 gallons per building?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: You will have to talk to the
Fire Department.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I am not sure on that.
MR. STRINI: Just to enhance what's there already?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah. And to protect -- and
to make sure you follow the code.
MR. STRINI: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: My question would be how
would we know that Mr. Strini is following the requirements?
How would we know?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: He gets inspected, and when
the -- with the subdivision, and that's part of the rules that
go with the subdivision. And upon inspection -- the County
inspects.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: So, can you put these
requirements on the approval for subdivision?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Yes, it goes on the notes,
right?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Kushi.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: Mr. Chair, after you
vote on your amended motion, I can clarify.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Would you like to clarify
that first before?
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think better to clarify it
first before we vote on it, then we find out --
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: Okay. If you pass
whatever you do and approve this --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: -- approve this with
recommendations --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: To the Director. That's
correct.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: If the Director
choses to follow your recommendation and approves the
subdivision with the conditions, in the rules, it calls for a
modification of subdivision agreement. It's a document. It
says, whereas, you know, the rules require this, but because
of, you know, circumstances -- unique circumstances, the
Department approves the subdivision with the following
modifications. Then it will list it out.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: And the developer --
the applicant signs. The Director signs. We record it.
That's how we get it to run with the land.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Are we clear with that? All
Board Members clear with that?
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: That's if he takes --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, yeah. No, again, we
understand this is a recommendation to the Director, and then
the Director has the final say. We are not disputing that
point.
But I just want the Board Members to understand,
if it is approved, sent to him and Mr. Tengan approves it,
that it will be put in that and will actually be enforceable.
And I think that's important. And you understand that,
Mr. Strini?
MR. STRINI: Yeah. I don't have a problem with
that, but I thought the Mayor signs this off or not. No?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: No.
MR. STRINI: So, it goes back to this guy?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: It goes back to Mr. Tengan.
That's correct.
MR. STRINI: And then if he disagrees, that's when
I have to file suit?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: That or go to the Mayor.
MR. STRINI: Or go to the Mayor. I knew it went
to the Mayor somewhere there.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Just for real historical
purposes, the Mayor, last year, came back to us and asked us
to adjudicate these situations instead of everybody going to
him, because he was getting inundated. Okay?
So, we are doing this, and most of the
recommendations, in the past, have been accepted by Director.
Does not mean he does every time, but he has graciously
allowed us this opportunity. So, try to do our work -- our
homework before we come up with a decision.
MR. STRINI: I got it.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay, Mr. Strini?
MR. STRINI: I got it.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: All right. So, any other
questions or discussion? Yes, Mr. Tengan.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: As you stated in reading the
past cases, it was kind of confusing as to what the Board was
discussing, what their frame of mind was in approving or
granting those waivers.
So, it would help me, in writing up some
recommendation to the Mayor, exactly what the Board is
thinking about in granting or in their recommendation to grant
this -- grant this waiver, so that, in the future, we wouldn't
have to go back to documents or minutes like we have in the
past and be totally confused. So that we know exactly what
the Board is thinking or, you know, what the reasons were, or
what the reasons are for recommending waiver of this
subdivision requirement.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: That's a secondary subject
after this one.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, I think that can be
done. Mr. Kushi.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: One more comment.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: Just to follow-up
on --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Michele.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: -- Member Michele's
comment that what the Board did before. You all know that the
Board's authority changed.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That's correct.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: And these previous
subdivisions, I believe, were done before, when the Board was
semi-autonomous and the Board could directly overturn the
Director's decision. And if the Board didn't do it, the
applicant could sue the Board. Could appeal the Board.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That's correct.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: That's a totally
different situation from what you have now. So, I wouldn't
depend on the precedents, if at all, that you are setting,
because the authority and the rule -- the roles of the Board
is different.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Is different. Yes.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: I mean, if I can speak to
that a little bit more.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Michele.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: I do understand the -- the
weight that precedent can have. But, if that's the only
reason that we are going to go forward with this, then
everyone that comes along, we are going to have to say yes to,
regardless of their circumstances. And any decision that --
any request that comes to us, where a Board has previously
acted on a similar request, we are just going to have to do
the same thing that they did before.
So, yeah, there is weight to be given to it, but,
at the same time, I mean, that's no de facto rule making as
they say. We are just, oh, well, our hands are tied, because
look what they have done in the past, so we have to do it,
too.
I mean, and that's not a reason to go against it
either because we are afraid of setting precedent. I mean, to
me the precedent issue balances both ways, so just put that
aside and look at the merits to me.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I think we are trying to do
the merits of this situation. And I think that's why
Mr. Tengan is asking for some kind of, like, response to what
our rationale to making this decision on this particular
issue, so that, in the future, there is not this same pulling
out and say, hey, this is what I did and all this other stuff.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Hang on. Miss Parsons, then
Mr. Johansen.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: I look at this, Michele, as
a small subdivision, I think, and we probably should discuss
what is a large subdivision. What is a small subdivision.
But if we keep putting upon the landowner these tremendous
amounts of money for infrastructure, that we technically
should be doing ourselves, we are just driving the cost of
land sky high, and nobody is going to be able to afford it.
And -- unless it's just the very, very wealthy,
which is where we are starting to drive things to right now
anyway. And I think that there's going to be some cases where
we have to -- our job is to try to help the public, not to
find a way against them, but a way to help make this happen.
He has a right to subdivide his property. Like I
said before, he can go on a private well system and skirt us
altogether. Do you want that? I mean, is that what we are
looking for? Or, you know, we -- putting on -- I mean, this
is 6,000 feet. You are in the business. You know exactly
what it costs to do that. It's not fair on a small land
subdivision.
Again, you know, this is infrastructure that we
would be doing if we had the CIP fund for it. I just look at
it -- that's my reasoning.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: Now, that's an excellent
argument. The precedent thing is a --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Is not a part of it.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: That's an excellent argument.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Mr. Johansen.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Well, back on the precedent
thing.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Trying to move on. Go ahead.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: I think that unless -- you
are saying that we are going to go on making exceptions every
time somebody gets in this kettle of fish. That's precisely
why I read out what Peter Rice has said.
That rule has to be changed, by some responsible
body, so that there is clarification. And I don't think it's
up to us to clarify that, although probably we would be
pleased to do it if called on. Why not? But -- and also, I
do think that we have some responsibility to follow that
precedent, because the issue of liability, based on
detrimental reliance, is still in the picture here, and we
better follow precedent unless and until we have clarification
of the rule change.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. I think the subject
has kind of gone full circle. Unless there's something that
needs to be added --
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Yeah, I would like to
comment. I really find it difficult when policy issues really
are -- have to be thrashed out in context of one individual's
situation. And one of the policy issues here has to do
with -- with are we making reasonable requirements for fire
protection or are we being unreasonable about fire -- you
know.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Right.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: And that's sort of a
technical matter that I don't feel qualified to really decide.
I would love to see -- well, there's rule changes that have to
be looked at by people who are knowledgeable, and the rule
changes have to be coordinated with the County Code, and the
Public Works Department, and the people who give the
subdivision requirements, without even contacting the
Department of Water Supply. I mean the subdivision
permission.
So, there's so many changes that need to be done,
and Mr. Strini here is the victim, basically, of the fact that
the County hasn't done the job it should have done. So, I
probably -- I probably will vote for the waiver based more on
Ginny's arguments, I suppose. But we shouldn't be making
these policy decisions in such an ad hoc fashion really.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, Mr. Tengan.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: I think one question that should
be answered is, is the County responsible to put in the
improvements for landowners -- regardless of whether they are
small subdividers or large subdividers.
Is the County responsible to put in the
infrastructure required for them to do what they want to do on
their land for their economic benefit? I think that's one big
issue that has to be answered, and I don't think anybody has
talked about that.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, that's a good point.
Thank you. That's a very good point.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: That's a legal point.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Anyhow -- yes.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: One point, yeah. It's a
hard question, I think, what we decide on this issue. But I
think Mr. Strini has one option, which is a legal option, to
put his whole subdivision request under private water system.
So, he has that one option.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Right.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: I don't know if the tank
would serve -- how much of that requirement that that would
meet. So, you know, I would vote against this motion.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: That's fine. Let's not --
again, I guess what I would like to do is call for the
question, unless you have more discussion. I would like to,
A, start with the first amendment. And I got to do my memory
correctly. The first amendment was --
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: Start off with your main
motion, please, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Well, I got to go amendments
back to the beginning -- the main motion.
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: The waiver.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: The first one was to put the
tank in.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: No, the second one was --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: The second motion was to put
the tank in for fire flow protection.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: The first one was
primarily --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: The meter was going to be --
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: The meter was exclusively
used for that one lot.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: For the existing structure.
And then the other one was -- the main motion was to approve
Mr. Strini's waiver. Are we clear with that, Stacy?
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I got to do this right, so I
don't get all confused. So, let's start with the first
amendment, vote on the first amendment, which was the putting
in of the --
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: No, it was exclusively using
the --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: No, the first -- the
second -- wait. I going backwards now. Second one is --
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: The second one is the tank.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: The tank. Okay. Let's not
confuse me now. I confused already. The second one is the
tank, adding the tank for fire flow protection.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Requiring that Mr. Strini
put in a tank --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: For fire flow protection
requirement.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: -- for fire flow
protection.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Which is done on other
properties.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. That's the first one.
All those in favor of that amendment, signify by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
Opposed.
(Silence.)
Okay. The first amendment, which was the
exclusive use of the --
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Meter.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: -- meter for the existing
structure and not to be used for expansion or additions to the
other lots.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Exactly.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: And that that runs with the
land.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: That's by rule anyway.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah. Let's not add that
part, because that goes with the rules already.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: I don't think I would say
existing structure. What size is your lot?
MR. STRINI: Well, the meter is lot A. B and C
are the divided lots.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: The one that the meter is
on, how many structures are on there right now?
MR. STRINI: Right now, there's two structures.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Okay. So, he's maxed.
That's fine.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: All those in favor of
amendment number one signify by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
Opposed?
(Silence.)
Now we get to the overall motion, which is the
approval of the waiver by Mr. Strini for the subdivision
development.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Right.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay? All those in favor
signify by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
Okay. I think we are going to have to take a hand
count.
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: Roll call.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah. Michele.
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: No.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Stacy.
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: No.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Ken.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: No.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Ralph.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Sally.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Ginny.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: And I vote yes, but still
four to three, we don't have a majority. So, I guess the
recommendation -- we won't make any recommendation for
approval. It was four to three.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: It would take five.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. I guess your options,
as we had stated to you, is go with the private water system,
or if you want to go the next step, I guess to the Mayor.
MR. STRINI: Okay. How do I do that?
BOARDMEMBER McLEAN: The Director still needs to
make his decision.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah. Okay. I am sorry. We
are recommending that, so that goes to him, and he has to
still make the final decision. Okay?
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: What I would be doing would be
trying to summarize this in some understandable form for the
Mayor and submitting the action by the Board to the Mayor --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: -- for his review. Actually, he
could very well decide otherwise. That's what I would be
doing.
I have a question for Mr. Strini though. Assuming
the subdivision is approved as is planning right now, you said
there are two existing structures on the lot. Will the
subdivision create a situation whereby these two existing
structures would be on two different parcels?
MR. STRINI: No.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Okay.
MR. STRINI: No, they remain on lot A, the
five-acre parcel and the meter. The other two lots have
nothing on them. Nothing is planned for them. Mostly just
want it for our family.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Could I make a comment,
Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Go ahead.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Yeah, I think Mr. Strini
should know that the Mayor has said to us, in asking us to, as
the Chairman said, adjudicate these matters, that he more or
less has told us that he will support our recommendations.
And in this case, you know, we did not recommend the waiver.
So, I'm not sure that going to see the Mayor about it is going
to be very productive for you.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: George still has to make
that --
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Yeah.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: I would submit the results of
the Board's action and give him the vote count also.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: May I ask a question?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Sure.
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: George, would you submit
your recommendation to the Mayor or --
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Well, my recommendation would be
the same as staff recommendation.
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: Okay.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Not to prolong the situation,
thank you, Mr. -- yes.
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: She needs a break.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah. Okay. Thank you,
Mr. Strini. We will take a five-minute break.
(Recess, 10:31 a.m. Resumed, 10:40 a.m.)
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I would like to call this
meeting back to order. I kept trying to get everybody's
attention. Nobody wanted to pay attention. I hit the gavel.
Okay. Next, under Number VII, Communication
05-03, letter from Jaime Meddings dated May 16, 2005,
disputing water bill. And this will be found on pages 77
through pages 99.
First, I would like to call -- I guess Holly is
not here, but you. Okay. Come. Helene, come. I guess you
are in the hot seat. If you could give us a history.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Excuse me. Is
Miss Meddings --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: No, she's not here.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: She is not here.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: She is not here.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: Should we possibly defer
this?
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: We are not sure what's
happened to her. She may have gotten evicted because of this,
and then we need to find out what happened.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Well --
MS. HOWARD: She moved from that place.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: She moved --
MS. HOWARD: Mr. Chair, would you like me to --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yes, come, Cathy, because you
have been trying to reach her, and maybe you can enlighten
Miss Raisbeck and the rest of the Board Members and what we
have done to this point to reach her.
MS. HOWARD: Okay. Ms. Meddings contacted -- was
contacted about her over -- or past due bill, as you can see.
She would like -- she wanted to speak to the Board, because
she had a dispute about the bill.
When she contacted me, I gave her our address and
gave her the procedure. And her landlord said that she was
moving the beginning of the month. When she -- she has a
cellphone that I could reach her at, even though she was
moving.
So, I called her and let her know that we would
need her new address when we were ready, and that she would be
on the agenda for this meeting. She said that her mother was
getting a new Post Office box, and that she would call me with
a new address. I have tried to contact her at the cellphone
number that I have been contacting her at, but her voice mail
message has changed.
I sent the packet to her old address in hopes that
it would reach her by forwarding, but I have not heard back
from her. I put in the letter that I had been trying to
contact her, and that we needed her to send in her new address
or to call me, but I have not heard anything from her. So, in
several attempts, leaving voice mails, I have not heard back.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: And you don't have a current
mailing address or any forwarding address?
MS. HOWARD: No current mailing address and no
forwarding address and no phone number. So, to -- it's up to
you what you would like to do as far as that goes, but you
might want to hear what has happened so far.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Well, let me bring it
to the Board. Would you -- knowing that Miss Meddings is not
here -- Ms. Meddings is not here and not to give her side of
the story, whatever it may be, now we are only going to hear
one side. And I'm not disputing what the Board -- I mean,
what the staff will tell me -- tell us, I should say.
However, when we take action, we have always wanted to make
sure all parties were available.
Now, my question to you is this. For the
purpose -- I will ask to defer this motion till next month --
this item to next month with the attempts to reach her for her
to be here. If, by next month, she is not here and she's not
able to attend the meeting, does not communicate with us in
any way, shape, or form, then I will listen to what the staff
has to say and take whatever appropriate action.
But, I want to be fair to her. If this -- what
you have brought up to our attention, she's moved and all
that, and we have not been able to reach her, I would like to
defer this matter till next month, give her an opportunity to
be here, and, at that point in time, do whatever necessary
action. If she's not here, then after all our attempts, then
that's it. Yes.
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: So, Mr. Chair, so we are
saying that all the attempts that staff has made, and that's
chronologically documented in here, is to -- is not enough
supporting evidence including a copy of the returned check?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, no. She -- again, if
Cathy is correct, she just moved, right? She just moved.
MS. HOWARD: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: So, just recently she moved.
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: But the issue is that she
is disputing that she made payment, did not give payment. But
if we look at the report that we have, there's every evidence
that is documenting as to the payment was not applicable.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I agree with you, Member
Helm, but also, on the other side, if the person has maybe
some other evidence she wants to produce, and she's not here
to produce it, are we being fair to that -- to the person?
Now, I don't know. But you know, we have seen
things by other people coming in, brought things that we did
not have from staff. And not knocking staff, but something
else that could add or could contribute to the case.
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: I know, but I just looking
at this particular situation, what has been provided here.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, but we only have the
staff's report. We do not have anything, and she's not here
to present anything. I am just asking, because you want to
discuss the matter, we can do it. But then again, we are not
being fair, because the person is not here.
If I give -- since she just moved, and what you
have just told me, she just moved. I would give -- if you
give us another month with our attempts to reach her, if she's
unable or we are not able to reach her, then we will take
action and then go from there. But we got to be fair, because
I don't want to come back later and say, oh, well, I just
moved. You couldn't reach me and then -- you know.
MS. HOWARD: Mr. Chair, she did say that she had
copies of cancelled checks that she was going to bring in, and
she had copies that she was going to have faxed directly from
her bank, but she never did.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
MS. HOWARD: So I don't know if you are going to
get any more documents from her than we got.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Those documents that we got
from her, or she said she had some she's going to give?
MS. HOWARD: She said she had. She was going to
send them in. She said she was going to bring them in to
me -- no, she said she was going to fax them in and bring in
copies to Holly. And I asked her to bring them in to me as
well when she came in, so that I could get them to you, but
she did not come in.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: I just wonder if there's
really an issue here for us. Because, from what I read -- and
correct me if I am wrong, George. From what I read, the
landowner is ultimately responsible for the water bill, and I
think the landowner has paid the water bill.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, that's right.
BOARDMEMBER RAISBECK: So that between him and the
tenant is his own private civil matter. Nothing to do with
the Board of Water Supply. I am not sure there is an issue
here that the Board needs to decide.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Maybe is that she's trying to
show that she did, in fact, make payment to the Department,
and that -- you know, so that would release her of any
liability or responsibility to the landlord, because the
landlord did make the payment.
BOARDMEMBER JOHANSEN: Mr. Chair, I wasn't clear.
Did she receive notice that this matter was going to be on the
agenda on June 23rd?
MS. HOWARD: She was told over the phone prior --
or the day that she moved, I got in contact with her and said
that it's on the agenda. But next week, when I go to mail the
pack, I will need your new -- or it was two weeks. I will
need your new address to mail it to, and I have not heard back
from her.
MS. KAU: Mr. Chair, may I just make one comment?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah. Sure.
MS. KAU: Director Tengan is absolutely right, and
our understanding is that Jaime Meddings wanted to appear
before the Board, provide this documentation, and,
essentially, discredit the Department or discredit the -- you
know, the fiscal staff.
The fiscal staff has consistently requested copies
of these documents that she says that she has, but
Miss Meddings claims that this would be too easy, and she
wants to go before the Board, et cetera.
For the record, as of this date, the account does
have a $236.08 balance. I don't know if the landlord is going
to --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Take care of that.
MS. KAU: Yeah, take care of that, or if he's
going to try and have her take care of that. That may be why
she's continuing to --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Pursue it.
MS. KAU: Yeah, pursue it. Or she claimed -- we
have consistently requested copies of that documentation, and
we indicated that we would gladly adjust her account
accordingly, but we have not received any such documentation
from her.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: I have a question.
MS. KAU: Certainly.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Just for clarification
purposes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: I would prefer not to go into
detail unless we decide we are going to discuss it, or we are
going to table it until she comes. And I am concerned that if
she says she has documents, I want to give her the opportunity
to bring these documents. If she doesn't, and we do all of
our best judicial ability to reach her, and we don't, and she
doesn't appear, then I will just let this matter -- I will
just let this matter settle.
Because I agree. You know, this is not something
we should be deciding, but I want to give her that
opportunity. So, I would propose we defer this matter to our
next meeting and give Miss Meddings a chance to be here. If
she is not, after all the attempts -- best attempts we can
make by mail, by phone, and by other means of communication,
and she does not appear, then I will just say this matter is
not something to be discussed. Is that all right with the
Board?
BOARDMEMBER CRIVELLO: Is there a call for
deferral then?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah. So, I will defer this
matter. Moving along.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Could I just get
clarification, only because I don't understand what some of
the exhibits are.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Well, can you meet with the
staff members --
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Sure.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: -- on their own, because I
would prefer, if you have those questions, go right to them
and ask them on those questions.
BOARDMEMBER PARSONS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. Moving along. Okay.
Director's report, 05-13, pages 100 and 101. Report on the
questions on Fong Construction regarding work completed on
Ainakula area -- in the Ainakula area. Mr. Tengan.
DIRECTOR TENGAN: Mr. Chair, the staff has
prepared a report for the Board answering certain questions
that the Board had at the last meeting. And Arnold Abe, the
engineer in charge of the project, is here to go over the
details.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Would you like to start,
Mr. Abe, or, Alva, would you like to start?
MR. NAKAMURA: I can start, Mr. Chair. At the
last meeting, I believe there were three questions that the
Board had with regard to this particular project. One was
when the work was completed, why was the meter moved, and when
the line was replaced, why was it buried.
And we attempted to try to answer all three of
these questions to the best of our ability. I brought Arnold
along this morning, because there might be some very specific
questions regarding the project that I might not be able to
answer, but he's available to answer any questions that you
might have.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Okay. I open the floor for
questions for Mr. Abe. You have the report in front of you --
or response. If you have specific questions -- I mean, this
is quite contradictory to what we were told the other day, at
our last meeting, but it's there before you, page 100. Do you
have questions for Mr. Abe?
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Kenneth. I mean,
Mr. Okamura. Excuse me.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: On what basis do you --
you know, the whole service along Ainakula Road were
transferred, and the meter work was completed on June 15th.
On what do you base that statement?
MR. ABE: Do I have to --
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Yeah, yeah. Go ahead,
please.
MR. ABE: This is all based on the information I
was given from the inspector Garrick Motooka for the project.
So, he was specific. That's why -- that's why, in terms of
the dates, like especially the meter relocation, he gives
specific things, because he does keep his own notes regarding
the project.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: So, that's Garrick is the
inspector, is a staff member --
MR. ABE: Yeah, he's the inspector for the Water
Department, and he was assigned to this particular project.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: So then, why was the --
and the question you had was you don't know why the thing --
the line was buried so deeply, but -- is that -- you tried to
answer that in this thing?
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: The third -- go ahead.
MR. ABE: And anything after the water meter is
the homeowner's responsibility. So, if he buries it five feet
deep, if he lays the pipe on the -- you know, on the ground,
that's their responsibility.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Yeah, but we were told
that because of the relocation of the meter, that line had to
be relocated by the contractor.
MR. ABE: Once the new line goes in -- we
basically replaced a two-inch line with an eight-inch
waterline out there. When the new line comes in, we had to
put in a whole new service lateral. And we typically put the
water meters like -- you know, like as close to the water
meter as possible, so that we can make a short connection back
into the existing line.
And that's basically what we do. His claims about
our Department burying the line so deeply and, you know, after
the meter and stuff, you know, if his lines were already deep,
we have to reconnect it. So, we would just put a reconnection
back in. It's just a couple-feet-type-of-thing back in.
So, I'm not sure, and I didn't understand like his
point about that the Department -- why the Department had to
put in new service and stuff like that. I mean, that's part
of the scope of the work to put in the meter.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: So, did you speak to the
people that came in that wanted -- you know, that made -- you
know, had questions about the inspector's report and stuff
like that? Did you speak to them, or did anyone on the staff
go and visit the site, and go check it out?
MR. ABE: Right. From what I understood, Fong
Construction did talk with the owners at the time. And the
father, I believe, was talking with them. And I believe the
inspector that was temporarily assigned to the project,
because Garrick wasn't around, he spoke with the older owner.
And he -- you know, it was kind of contradictory what he
proposed to what was proposed here or presented by the -- one
of the -- the owner's son, that there wasn't a pressure
reducing -- or what is it?
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Yeah. Valve.
MR. ABE: Pressure regulator. I am sorry. Yeah,
but --
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: So, there was some --
MR. ABE: -- I don't know.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: Already there was some,
you know, miscommunication or whatever. You had some
disagreement already from the time the inspector spoke to --
MR. ABE: Right. There was disagreement between
even the father and the son. I mean, I hate for them to not
be here and not defend themselves, because this is all hearsay
myself.
CHAIRMAN VICTORINO: Right. Right.
MR. ABE: I mean, I don't -- I don't know.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: But, anyway, as far as the
Department's handling of the situation, maybe if there was
some disagreement, it would have been good to get somebody
else to go -- outside of the inspector, a third party to go
and check it out maybe. Just, you know --
MR. ABE: I am not sure what we would have seen.
VICE-CHAIRMAN OKAMURA: -- hindsight is 20/20.
MR. ABE: Yeah, because at that point, there
wasn't that pressure regulator there. And the inspector said
that there wasn't the pressure regulator after the whole
thing. He doesn't remember seeing anything before, but, you
know, this is a case of he-said-she-said-kind-of-thing, I
believe.
And it's, I guess, up to the Board to -- in your
guys' infinite wisdom to figur