BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
COUNTY OF MAUI
SPECIAL MEETING
Wednesday, December 4, 2002
9:00 a.m.
Kahului Shopping Center
Kaahumanu Avenue
Kahului, Maui, Hawaii
Reported by: Katherine Eismann, RDR, CRR, CSR #439
APPEARANCES
Vice Chairman: MICHAEL NOBRIGA
Board Members: KENT HIRANAGA
GINNY PARSONS
MICHAEL VICTORINO
CLARK HASHIMOTO
ADOLPH HELM
Corp Counsel: EDWARD KUSHI
Director: DAVID CRADDICK
Deputy Director: GEORGE TENGAN
Board Secretary: CATHY HOWARD
Engineering: HERBERT KOGASAKA
Staff: HOLLY PERDIDO
(Wednesday, December 4, 2002, 9:00 a.m.)
* * * * *
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Okay. Special meeting of
the Board of Water Supply will come to order. It's now
9:00 a.m. We are at the Wailuku Shopping Center at 65 West
Kaahumanu Avenue, Unit 29.
In attendance for the Board of Water Supply, Kent
Hiranaga, Clark Hashimoto, Adolph Helm, Virginia Parsons, Mike
Victorino, and Mike Nobriga sitting in as for chair. Also in
attendance is Director David Craddick, Deputy George Tengan,
honorable and esteemed counsel, Mr. Ed Kushi, Board Secretary
Cathy Howard, and members of the delightful public.
We will open up the floor for testimony from the
public. No minutes to be approved. First person signing up
to testify is Mr. Charles Villalon of Na Kupuna O Maui
concerning item old business 4B. Mr. Villalon?
MR. VILLALON: Villalon, yeah.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Villalon. Thank you.
MR. VILLALON: Thank you, Chairman and Board. I
wear several hats here, but I was asked by Na Kupuna O Maui
and by Patty Nishiyama to voice concern about land ownership
before any acquisition or designations made on acquisition of
the properties, clear land ownership should be determined,
along with the -- you know, the water rights are very unique,
and it's a very hot topic issue.
As you guys know, you guys fully know about the
new charter. They feel that monies at an excess about
20 million -- 20 plus million dollars should be spent on
upgrading and servicing of the present system instead of
purchasing something that -- you know, you looking into the
future, but there's no certainty. There is no surety. The
only surety is for the special interests.
We need to assure that the land ownership -- we
want to go on record -- Na Kupuna wants to go on record that
they are voicing concern about clear land ownership to
easements and surrounding properties of the well. That's it.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you.
MR. VILLALON: Thank you.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Members, any questions for
the testifier?
MR. CRADDICK: What well?
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: What?
MR. CRADDICK: What well is he talking about?
MR. VILLALON: We are talking about the Iao well.
MR. CRADDICK: Which one is that?
MR. VILLALON: The one we are going to -- propose
to acquire by the county acquisition of $20 million.
MR. CRADDICK: We are not --
MR. VILLALON: I am not a water man. I know
there's several, but the one in particular that I am speaking
of, any adjoining properties.
MR. CRADDICK: We are not --
MS. PARSONS: I think he's talking about the
watershed. Are you talking about the watershed?
MR. VILLALON: Yeah, the watershed. Isn't there a
pump?
MR. CRADDICK: No, there's no pumps. No wells.
MR. VICTORINO: It's the watershed.
MR. VILLALON: The watershed. So, we are
intending to pump the water from the watershed?
MR. VICTORINO: No.
MR. CRADDICK: No.
MR. VILLALON: How are we going to get the water?
I will be very honest. We just got word, you know. This is
really hard, in the middle of the week, 9:00 o'clock. I mean,
there is a big cloud over this whole thing. I am coming here
as a representative. And I have been told certain things
that's been cleared up right now.
So, if we are going -- if we are looking at water
resource, obviously, we are going to take the water resource
to habitable areas. We are going to have to irrigate it, pump
it. We are going to have to get it to the habitable sources.
Whatever area that is, watershed, well, pump, assure that all
easements and surrounding properties have clear title. That's
all I am saying.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you.
MR. VILLALON: Thank you.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Next testifier this
morning will be Kahu Charles K. Maxwell, Senior, concerning
the same item on our agenda. Mr. Maxwell. Welcome.
MR. MAXWELL: Thank you.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Maxwell has also provided written testimony to the Board.
MR. MAXWELL: I hope there's enough.
Mr. Chairman, members of this commission. Thank
you for giving me the opportunity to express my views on this
subject.
I am Kahu Charles Kualuwehi Maxwell born and
raised on Maui. Waikapu is my ku'uone hanau or my ancestral
place of birth, and my mo'oku'auhau, my genealogy, can be
traced a thousand years back to Waikapu.
My ancestral grandmother, Keali'iwahinehololio
was, a high chiefess who controlled all of the lands from
Waikapu to Maalaea. Land ownership to our people were -- was
foreign, because, in their mind, the land or aina -- aina is
the mystical food -- were children of Papa and Wakea, the
earth mother and the sky father.
According to the mo'olelo, the stories that were
passed down from our family, foreign laws were introduced to
get the lands away from the use of our people, especially the
adverse possession law.
This law was used without the knowledge of the
Hawaiian people. My family lost numerous acres of land in
Waikapu because of this law. The majority of the land in this
area has clouded title. It really is a sin that we, as
descendants of a great and loving people, who thought that
when they shared the land with everyone that came here, their
descendants of today would at least have some land of their
own.
The water and land are one of the same. For
Hawaiian's, both mean life and sustenance. An old Hawaiian
chant speaks about water rights and says:
"One question I ask of you:
Where flows the water of Kane?
Deep in the ground, in the gushing spring.
In the duct of Kane and Loa.
A well-spring of water, to gush.
The water of magic power.
The water of live! Life! Oh give us life."
Water has always been essential to Hawaiians
throughout -- in thought and ritual, as much mystical as
essential. Hawaiians revered water, protected it, preserved
it. Strict rules regulated its use and Kapu prevented its
abuse.
Each ahupua'a had its own system of auwai that
diverted water from the streams to the fields and clearings.
The Konohiki laid out the path of the auwai and diggers worked
from the destination points upward towards the stream. Each
Ali'i provided men according to the number of cultivators on
each land. Water was distributed according to the number of
men who built and worked on the auwai.
No auwai was permitted to take more water than
continued to flow downstream below the dam. It was usually
less, for their were those living below the stream drawing
water from it. Their rights have to be regarded.
The flow of the water was controlled by the dams
made of loose rocks and clods. The height of the dam
controlled the flow. If a dam drew too much water, water
right holders downstream were permitted to knock it down. If
it was subsequently rebuilt downstream, delegates were
required to be present to see a due proportion of the water
was left in the stream.
Water rights were primarily for lo'i. That is for
the taro culture. Potato patches, bananas or sugar cane had
no recognized claim on a water right. The cultivation of
these, regarded as dry land crops, was invariably during the
rainy season, except in the Ko'olau on wet districts.
In ancient times, problems with the supply of
water and its fair distribution were rare. Land was held in
trust for all who were willing to work for it. Water was
available for all who worked to get it. Water problems arose
only after individuals could own land, and with the private
ownership came the notion of private water rights.
The most ambitious irrigation project was at the
Waiahole ditch. It is safe to say that ancient Hawaiians did
not have the means to dig the tunnel. But, if they had, they
certainly would have done a better job of allocating the
water.
This is some historical information, "Hawaiian
Water Rights," by Emma Metcalf Nakuina, in the Hawaiian Annual
in 1894.
Also, the word kuleana means water rights, and the
kuleana followed the land. If you sell the lands, the water
rights went the land.
In an e-mail I received yesterday on this agenda
item from Mr. Bill Meyer, who stated, without seeing the
actual area to be purchased, it's hard to reply. But if the
area encompasses the collection, diversion, and distribution
system of water agribusiness -- of Wailuku Agribusiness, in
West Maui, the purchase could be significant and desirable.
This could be a lot of surface water, and Maui's
future could be, at least in part, tied to it. It is going to
be harder to obtain additional groundwater supplies. Also,
there should be an opportunity to identify and protect the
stream flow requirements for purchase if the purchase is made.
This would be something to argue in this meeting.
My question, Mr. Chairman, is why the county would
purchase this land if the title is clouded. Even if Title
Guaranty guarantees the purchase and say, in the future,
something happens to them, and they go out of business, what
then?
Also, without conducting due diligence, how will
the county know that Wailuku Sugar has clear title to the
land. By accepting the land, would the county be liable for
future litigation from its original owners?
Would it not be more simple to condemn the land
for public use? Then the true owners of hui land could come
forth and settle their claim, instead of given Wailuku Sugar
the public money across the table for land that they might not
have clear title to.
As you stated, Mr. -- on the phone, Mr. Craddick,
if the county could purchase the land, Hawaiians could open
the taro patches, and the Water Board would probably help them
clear the land. It's a great idea. Include that as one of
the stipulations of the sale. Mahalo.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Maxwell.
Is there any questions from the Board of the testifier at this
time?
MS. PARSONS: Maybe for later.
MR. VICTORINO: Maybe for later.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Would you
please stay around in case we think of questions later?
Are there any other persons in the room who offer
oral testimony at this time? There are some new faces that
came in. No? Thank you.
Is there any written testimony? None.
Move on to old business. Item four, item A,
discussion and possible action on Upcountry drought
declaration to allow use of the H. Poko wells, the Hamakuapoko
wells. Mr. Craddick.
MR. CRADDICK: On this item here, I think we have
got it noticed correctly here today that we are not using it
for general purposes. It is for drought purposes.
The numbers that have changed here now. We have
the ditch was at 55 -- well, it says it dropped below
55 million. It is still below 55 million. But, at the
beginning there, we say it's less than 25 million. It's
actually 36 million right now, the ditch, and the reservoir
levels have not changed substantially.
So, in light of this, by the Board's agreement, it
requires going into a drought situation, so that we can use
all available pumping. I will tell you that one of the wells
is not functioning now, because it's been sitting, not being
used. So, in reality, we will only be able to use one well if
the Board sees fit to allow us to go ahead. But we will make
every effort to try and get the other pump operational.
But, we are asking basically to declare a drought,
and so that we can use these wells to supplement the water
system and be able to backwash the filters.
The other item that I brought up last meeting, the
Pookela well, the -- my understanding is the pump was finished
being -- or it will be finished being set today. We expect to
start pumping water out of the well on Friday and beginning
the test through the weekend, testing the well. And I don't
have any results on that at this time for you, but it's close
to being to a point where we will know what the test results
are.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Question,
Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: Mr. Craddick, it is my
understanding that we have some rainfall in the Upcountry area
over the past week. How has that sustained the percentage of
the ditch flow?
MR. CRADDICK: It's come up from 22 million to
36 million.
MR. VICTORINO: Okay. But how far off are we from
what would be considered an adequate flow? I mean, we hear
the term 55 million all the time, right?
MR. CRADDICK: Yes.
MR. VICTORINO: So, we are 19 million short of
what we consider adequate flow?
MR. CRADDICK: Yes, and our reservoirs are well
below 80 percent.
MR. VICTORINO: When you say well below, how far?
Because I know what it says here, but I want to know what you
have to say.
MR. CRADDICK: We are, right now, I believe, about
55 percent on the storage.
MR. VICTORINO: That's as of what, Monday?
MR. CRADDICK: That was the last time I looked,
Monday. Today, we don't have the numbers for today.
MR. VICTORINO: You don't have today's numbers.
Okay.
MR. CRADDICK: Which would be actually yesterday's
numbers.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Helm.
MR. HELM: I guess, David, can you enlighten me
and, I guess, maybe some of the fellow board members, on what
other impacts or conditions are going to be set? If we do
declare a drought, are there any other conditions that will
impact the customers? Could you kind of give --
MR. CRADDICK: I am not asking for any at this
time.
MR. HELM: Okay.
MR. CRADDICK: Just if you note, we say in there,
should the storage reach 40 percent, then we would ask that
the 10 percent voluntary cutback be put in place. But we
think with running this well, we might be able to avoid that.
MR. HELM: Okay.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Where is that Pookela -- where is
the water going to from the Pookela well?
MR. CRADDICK: It won't go anyplace, when we are
testing it. It will just be dumped.
MR. HASHIMOTO: But after it's up and running.
MR. CRADDICK: It would be able to go into the
water system once we get a permanent pump and piping and
things in place.
MR. HASHIMOTO: And how far off is that?
MR. CRADDICK: To get a permanent pump and piping
in place, probably a year, year and a half. But like I said
before, you know, if the board wanted to talk with the
contractor to leave the existing pump in the hole for a while,
until we on could get the contract out, that's a possibility
to do that also.
And right now, what we are trying to do is we are
going to try and get samples of the water to get an engineered
report through the Health Department, so that if we need to
use this water, we would be able to do that. And when I say
be able to do that, I am talking about in the next 30 days.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: I guess the last question I have
for you, if we declare a drought in the Upcountry area, or --
let me rephrase my question.
If we do not, what would be the impact? If we do
not do anything today and wait to see, because we are in our
prime rainy season, et cetera, what would be the impact if we
didn't do that?
MR. CRADDICK: You are going to continue to have
two pumps that have sat for over a year not operating, and we
right now have only one pump not operating. We will
probably -- you know, if we try and go another year, we will
probably have two pumps that don't operate when we need them
to operate.
So, mainly what you are doing right now is getting
it to where we can get the equipment to operate again. That's
what you are doing, and it's, you know, something you need to
do, regardless, at least once a year, you know, running the
thing, so that we know it works when we need to have it work.
MR. VICTORINO: Is there any possibility of test
operating these pumps for a period of time, maybe like in this
kind of area where there's shortage? Not really running them,
but running them as a test to make sure they are operational.
Is that possible?
MR. CRADDICK: The EA didn't cover that type of
thing, you know, need of operating them on a regular basis
just to keep them from seizing up in the well. It didn't
cover that.
MR. VICTORINO: Because my biggest concern is I
don't want to send fear to the Upcountry area saying there's a
drought when, really, the conditions are not in existence.
And for the purpose of just running equipment, just to see if
it works, I don't feel that correlates.
MR. CRADDICK: Well, I would have to leave it to
Corp Counsel. You know, they basically have been saying, and
I think the Board's basically been saying, for whatever
reasons, they don't want those things to operate unless they
say so. If that condition wasn't on us, we would run them to
make sure they ran when we needed them to run.
MR. VICTORINO: Okay.
MR. CRADDICK: But that, to me, is the most
important thing right now, is being able to run them legally.
And we know, if a drought is declared, we can legally run
them. So, that's probably the biggest thing right now, is
making sure they do, in fact, work, in the event we do have a
drought situation.
And I will tell you that the long-term forecast is
for less rain because of the forming El Nino. So, the long --
longer term forecast, January, February, March, is for low
rain not a normal winter rain. And that's -- again, that's a
report put out by -- that's the El Nino Southern Oscillation
Report put out by the University of Hawaii.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Question, Mr. Craddick.
By activating Hamakuapoko wells, do we also activate pumping
up to Kahakapao reservoir?
MR. CRADDICK: We do that on a daily basis right
now.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Follow-up question. Would
it provide us greater resource in filling up Kahakapao and the
other reservoirs by activating Hamakuapoko?
MR. CRADDICK: We do pump back to Kahakapao. It
just relieves the draw down on Piiholo basically. So, yes, it
will assist in getting our resource levels up a little higher.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: A follow-up question.
There was a five point or seven point stratification of
conditions in Upcountry drought declaration that we had
followed previously. Where are those?
MR. CRADDICK: We -- I -- I didn't bring that here
with me, Mike, because the Board hasn't been following those
since -- since 1999. So, I haven't -- I didn't bring it in
with me.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: So, follow-up question.
So, currently, the reason why we are asking for a drought
declaration, one is because Waiahole Ditch has fallen below
threshold of 50 million gallons a day, and second, the
depletion of our reservoir system. Is there a third reason?
MR. CRADDICK: Well, like I said, the operational
reason. We have been sitting -- all the equipment has been
sitting a year. We know right now one pump doesn't work. So,
that -- we need to do something to try and get it to work, and
it may require pulling the pump out. I don't know what is
going to have to happen. But, it's not good to have equipment
sitting around not running.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: I guess to tack on to
Mr. Nobriga's questioning is with that forecast, was one of
the seven points forecast projected rainfall?
MR. CRADDICK: Yes.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: It was.
MR. VICTORINO: So, that would be another bullet
in the seven points that we are referring to, right?
MR. CRADDICK: Yes, it is an unknown factor
however.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Hashimoto, you have
something further?
MR. HASHIMOTO: There must be a way to run those
pumps periodically just so that they don't freeze up or isn't
there a way? You said there is no way you could set up the
pumps unless a drought is declared.
MR. CRADDICK: That's correct. That's my
understanding of the EA that has currently been approved for
the use of those when water goes Upcountry.
MR. HASHIMOTO: Can we ask Mr. Kushi?
MR. CRADDICK: The EIS that we have approved is
for the water to go to the Central Maui system. So, if it was
going to the Central Maui system, I wouldn't have to come in
here and ask your permission to run them. But, for some
reason, when we run it Upcountry, a drought has to be
declared.
So, and we are -- we do meet -- you know, we have
reduced reservoir capacity. We have got reduced ditch
capacity. One thing that is helpful, in our side, there has
been Kona weather, so demand is a little bit lower than it
normally is during a drought situation, and that's how we have
been able to make it this far, is because demand has also been
relatively low.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Kushi, do you know
enough of the situation at Hamakuapoko to provide us some
advice pursuant to Mr. Craddick's statements and
Mr. Hashimoto's questioning?
CORPORATION COUNSEL KUSHI: Mr. Chair, I am not
totally familiar with the litigation, but there was -- from my
understanding, there was a court order on this Hamakuapoko
well. And from my review of the documents -- limited review.
Again, I wasn't involved in the litigation.
But to use that well, there must be a declaration
of drought, and it's not involved in the East Maui plan. And
the director's correct in that there must be a declaration
before that well can be used.
The question -- our concern is that there may be
other ways of testing the equipment, your equipment, aside
from declaration. However, I would imagine you would have to
go back to court or get a settlement -- some kind of agreement
with the plaintiffs to use that well.
In any event, if you do declare a drought, and the
well is used, I will strongly advise the board to monitor, you
know, the use and the draw from that well to make sure, and
monitor the whole drought situation. Not use this declaration
just to use that equipment.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Kushi. Any
further questions? Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: If there's no more further
questions, I will make a motion, but I will defer my motion
until all questions are made.
MR. HELM: One more question.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Helm.
MR. HELM: Yeah. David, again, I guess we haven't
gone to this issue for a while, and, again, I just need to be
enlighten a little bit more. You basically were saying that
we are going to require customers to have a 10 percent
voluntary cutback on water use.
When does the meter issuance go into effect? Do
we stop issuing meters when we declare a drought?
MR. CRADDICK: We are not asking for any mandatory
cutback here. It's just voluntary conservation. Until the
reservoirs get to 40 percent, we are not asking for -- well,
we are not asking for any specific amount of voluntary cutback
if the Board declares a drought.
We are asking for a voluntary amount, 10 percent,
if the reservoirs hit 40 percent.
MR. HELM: Okay. So, what you are saying is when
we do declare a mandatory cutback, that's when we do not issue
meters Upcountry.
MR. CRADDICK: I believes that would be
appropriate if we came to that stage.
MR. VICTORINO: Okay.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Hashimoto.
MR. HASHIMOTO: On yesterday's report, the ditch
was running 83 million, and I am kind of confused on this.
The reservoirs -- it looks like it's almost down to
40 percent. Is that correct or --
MR. CRADDICK: Almost, and what we are trying to
do is to get this water into the system to prevent it from
going down that low.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Further questions?
Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: If that's all the questions, I
would like to make a motion that we declare the Upcountry area
in a drought condition, for the sole purpose of, one, making
sure our Hamakuapoko wells are activated, that we monitor this
very closely, and that at our next meeting, make a
determination, by the volume of ditch water and our
reservoirs, if those drought conditions would continue from
that point forward. And if I am not mistaken, I think our
next meeting is December --
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: 22.
MS. HOWARDE: December 26.
MR. VICTORINO: Okay. December 26.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: 26.
MR. VICTORINO: 26. Thank you. Thank you, Cathy.
And at our December 26 meeting, we can make a determination if
drought conditions should continue.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Is there a second?
MR. HASHIMOTO: Second.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved and seconded. Moved
by Mr. Victorino, seconded by Mr. Hashimoto. Mr. Kushi.
Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: I want to make it perfectly clear
that this is only for the purpose of the testing of the
equipment, and that it would not interfere with the
distribution of the water meters, in the Upcountry area, that
hopefully can be started to be distributed this month.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: So noted, Miss Parsons.
Follow-up, Mr. Kushi?
CORPORATION COUNSEL KUSHI: Mr. Chair, I feel very
uncomfortable with the motion as stated, and I will say this
just to remind the Board. If the motion is to declare a
drought to test the equipment, if I was a plaintiff, on the
other side in this litigation, I would have a very big problem
with this.
I believe the Board's authority is to, if there's
a drought, just declare it, and as a consequence of a drought,
you need to test the equipment. If you are just going to
declare a drought to test the equipment, there might not be a
drought. So, I feel very uncomfortable with the motion -- the
purpose behind the motion.
MR. VICTORINO: Mr. Chair, can I make my motion?
I apologize if the motion was taken in that respect. I
just -- may I amend it?
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes, Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: I just want to make a motion, with
conditions that exist in the Upcountry area, that a drought
condition be a declared, and nothing else -- nothing else
further to be added to that other than the conditions that
exist in the Upcountry area.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Second to the
amended?
MR. HASHIMOTO: Second.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Discussion on the
amendment. Yes, Mr. Hiranaga.
MR. HIRANAGA: I guess I am not convinced or
haven't been convinced of the need to declare a drought at
this point. Personally, I would believe that we should advise
the Upcountry community to begin conservation measures, and
then impose a 10 percent reduction in use.
I am a little concerned about the legal
implications of starting up Hamakuapoko wells. I think, for
me, I would like a clearer understanding and a position from
either the director or corporation counsel regarding the
implications of starting the well. I favor imposing water
restrictions, at this time, and possibly revisiting this issue
at the next meeting.
The other question I have is if the Piiholo
reservoir had not been emptied and cleaned, would we be in
this situation?
MR. CRADDICK: We have had the reservoir filled up
since then, so, what happened prior to it filling up, it is
irrelevant.
MR. HIRANAGA: So, once the reservoir was emptied
and cleaned, you were able to refill it to its maximum or
desired levels, capacity?
MR. CRADDICK: Yes, yes.
MR. HIRANAGA: So, the draw down is a result of
the lack of water flow?
MR. CRADDICK: Yeah, it's just lack of rainfall.
That's all.
MR. HIRANAGA: This wasn't clear in your memo.
MR. CRADDICK: Okay. I am sorry. Could I say one
other in response to his comments there or discussion?
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I don't think it's -- I
don't think it's necessary.
MR. CRADDICK: He wanted to know what the
ramifications are of using it.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Okay. Try and say that.
MR. CRADDICK: Okay. We did -- okay. First of
all, we have an agreement with A&B that basically says we will
use all available groundwater resources whenever the ditch
hits 55 million gallons, and then also if the reservoirs hit
80 percent.
We have long since passed the 80 percent. We are
well below the 55 million. To go in -- to start asking the
customers to cut back when we have water, I -- I don't know as
there would be any reason to do that, because that's the
purpose -- that was the purpose of us doing the EA, was so
that we could use this available resource to pump the water
Upcountry, to avoid having restricts, not to put the
restrictions in place and then start using the resource.
So, I know you weren't here when that agreement
was passed with A&B, but that's the current -- the current
agreement that the Board has with A&B -- or, actually, I take
that back -- HC&S, that we will use all available groundwater
resources. And this is an available groundwater resource,
which we have done in EA.
It's just that in the EA, it requires the Board
declaring a drought. Now, you know, should we have put in the
EA what the requirements were for drought? I don't know. You
know, we did have real clear drought guidelines before, that
the Board has seen fit to not use, really, since 1989.
So, we are a little bit in a quandary, because
what is the criteria for the Board to declare a drought now?
And we are just going by that agreement with HC&S. We
definitely meet those criteria. So, that's all I can say
there.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Yes,
Mr. Hiranaga.
MR. HIRANAGA: I am just wondering if corporation
counsel has an opinion on the Director's statement.
CORPORATION COUNSEL KUSHI: Mr. Chair, what he
just said, no, I have no comment on that. I am just concerned
about the purpose of the -- the purpose and intent of the
declaration. And if it's just to test the equipment, I would
have a problem with that.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes, Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSON: Mr. Kushi, if we need to test
equipment, could -- I am sorry about that. If we need to test
equipment, could we possibly go back to court to get a new
motion to get the permission from the court to allow us to
test?
MR. CRADDICK: Just have to redo the EA.
CORPORATION COUNSEL KUSHI: There is a court order
on this. I would first suggest steps to consult with the
other parties, the plaintiff, to get some kind of agreement.
If not, go to court. They might be involved in a separate EA
or EIS. I am not sure. I am really not familiar with the
background of that separate case.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Any
discussion? Further discussion on the amended motion? Yes.
MR. HASHIMOTO: I think the full intent of the
motion, I hope, is that for the health and safety of the
Upcountry water users. I don't think we should declare a
drought just to use Hamakuapoko wells.
I think we have been in drought before. I have
been in drought before. And if we don't take action, and the
reservoirs go down, then there's going to be mandatory
cutbacks or mandatory -- yeah, like 10 percent.
I think when we had severe droughts, over the past
couple of years, when I was on the Board, we did pump, and
that did prevent the residents, especially the farmers, from
cutting back.
And if you are going to -- if the farmers need to
cut back, you know, it's their livelihood, and they are going
to be hurt. So, the declaration of drought, in my mind, is
for the health and safety of the residents of Upcountry. And
that's why -- that's why I want to declare a drought.
I want to prevent the water users from taking the
mandatory cutback, and, you know, we haven't done that for
quite some time, because we have been pumping, and we have
been taking a proactive reaction towards the drought instead
of waiting until the reservoirs are empty before we take
action.
So, if we take action, it's for the health and
safety of the Upcountry residents, Mr. Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Hashimoto.
Mr. Hiranaga.
MR. HIRANAGA: I think Clark asked this question
earlier. So, why is the -- this report that was given to us
this morning, why does the Waiahole Ditch show 83 mgd flowing
yesterday?
MR. CRADDICK: The ditch goes up and down, on
those kind of amounts, on a daily basis. That's not unusual.
But it's been -- average has been well below 55 for the last
month.
MR. HIRANAGA: Why does it show the Piiholo
reservoir at 59 percent of capacity?
MR. CRADDICK: It -- that's this morning's report
from yesterday?
MR. HIRANAGA: Right.
MS. HOWARD: He's the only one that doesn't get a
fax, so he's got yesterday's report from day before.
MR. CRADDICK: Okay. So, that's from Monday or
something. That reservoir may be at that level right now, but
if you look at Kahakapao, it's only 40 -- what is it -- 43 or
45 percent.
MR. HIRANAGA: I don't know. I guess I'm
confused.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: The intent of the motion, and just
to clarify in everyone's mind, was the fact that a number of
the seven points that we have talked about, the ditch flow,
the reservoir levels, intangible factor, the predicted
rainfall for the upcoming rainy season, spring season, I
should say, all below what we normally consider adequate.
And I think the Upcountry people, tacking on to
Mr. Hashimoto's statement, deserve the opportunity to have
their water continuous and not have an interruption or not
wait until a real die-hard situation to make some changes or
declare a drought condition.
So, my feeling is that this drought condition is
being -- specifically using Mr. Hashimoto's words -- for the
safety and well-being of the Upcountry people, and there is no
other predication and no other rationale for this motion.
And also my -- my amendment, which would correct
the part about starting up the wells, it is really for the
purpose of the people of the Upcountry area. So, I would hope
we can call for the question, because I think the discussion
has gotten to a point where most of the answers have been
given, and I think we should call for the question, Mr. Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Hiranaga.
MR. HIRANAGA: I am not totally convinced, by the
Director, for the need to declare a drought and to start up
the wells. But I am going to defer to his professional
opinion, and, with reservation, I will be voting in favor of
the motion.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Hiranaga.
The question has been called for. All those in
favor of closing discussion signify by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed nay.
(Silence.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: All those in favor of the
amended motion signify by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed nay.
(Silence.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Motion carries. Back to
our main motion. Any further discussion? All those in favor
signify by say aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed nay.
(Silence.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Motion carries. We will
take a five-minute recess at this time.
(Recess 9:42 a.m. Resumed 9:48 a.m.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Call the meeting back to
order after recess. We are now on item B, old business.
Discussion, possible action regarding budget amendment for
purchase of watershed property.
Is there any further oral testimony to be given at
this time, because I notice some new faces in the audience.
MS. PARSONS: Mr. Kushi is not in yet, please.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Lucienne, would you please
come forward.
MS. PARSONS: Mr. Kushi is not back yet.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Assume the seat, the chair
of ultimacy. I will note that Mr. Kushi is not in attendance,
but --
MS. de NAIE: Thank you, Mr. Nobriga. So, I
should speak into this one, yeah?
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Sure.
MS. de NAIE: Okay. Well, I think it's without
saying everyone's very appreciative that the Board has worked
hard to move forward on this matter of acquiring the watershed
properties, for public use, that are adjacent to where the
county is already generating a significant portion of its
water.
This actually makes a lot of common sense to make
sure that this whole watershed area is managed by one entity.
It makes economic sense. It certainly makes conservation
sense. And I think that there's a lot of general support
that, you know, you are getting good advice in how you are
moving forward.
I just -- I have more of a question, I guess, than
a comment. I am sure you are all aware that there's various
agreements on who gets what from the water from this ditch
system right now as it currently exists. And I wanted to
know, just as a citizen, how this is going to figure in to any
kind of agreement that is going to be reached by the county.
I was looking at a report that was prepared in
1998 -- or 1988 -- excuse me -- by HC&S, detailing their water
use of the surface water in the county. And I believe that
this report was included in the water use and development plan
that was released in 1990.
But, it notes, in this report, that HC&S, by their
own calculations, is using, I think, about 24 million gallons
a day out of the ditch system from this particular area. And,
so, I am just curious, in your discussion, if that's been
factored into the equation, that that use is going to
continue, or if the, you know, county is going to make another
arrangement with HC&S or, perhaps, you know, with the passage
of 12 years or 14 years, there's less demand for that water
from HC&S. But just curious how that's going to be handled as
part of the overall agreement. Can anyone say?
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I believe it's a legal --
a legal answer that we would have to find in the course of the
future of the Water Department going forward.
Our primary discussion is -- is discussion that we
have already begun with Wailuku Agribusiness concerning
property that is available within the watershed area. We have
not taken into consideration any surface water issues --
MS. de NAIE: Uh-huh. Okay.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: -- during these
discussions.
MS. de NAIE: So, it's just the land itself that's
been discussed at this point.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes.
MS. de NAIE: Protection of the watershed area.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes.
MS. de NAIE: Well, good. That's great to
clarify. And the other thing, it was my understanding that
because the -- you know, the considerable amount of
expenditure to secure these lands -- I believe it's
15,000 acres we have been talking about -- that there were
going to be other partners involved.
This was something that -- that had been
discussed, you know, just in a casual way, not at this Board
meeting, but in other discussions that I had with Mayor Apana.
And, so, is that -- is that still likely to be the scenario,
that any kind of purchase would be dependent upon financial
assistance from various partners who would utilize portions of
the land?
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: That is under discussion
today.
MS. de NAIE: Okay. Great. Well, I guess you
have answered all my questions. Thanks for this opportunity
to come and express, you know, support for acquiring these
lands. But I would just like to, you know, say that it's
important that all these issues be clarified, so that, you
know, we really end up getting something out of it. Because
sometimes the county is enthusiastic about entering into
agreements, and when you think it through, further down the
line, they set up a situation where it's hard to satisfy all
the parties. Like the Central Maui Joint Venture turned out
that way. It was no one's intention, but that's kind of the
way it turned out. So, a little caveat. Think carefully.
Choose wisely. Thank you.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Miss de Naie.
Any questions for the testifier? Very good. Any questions
for anybody else in the audience?
Because of the sensitive nature of this matter, I
recommend that we convene into executive situation.
MR. VICTORINO: So move.
MR. CRADDICK: Mike, before we do that, could we
just go over this thing that Holly passed out on the budget?
Because I know we cannot be in executive session for budget
items.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Craddick.
I stand corrected.
Holly, would you provide the Board with
availability of funds at our disposal in taking up the
question of budget amendments.
MS. PERDIDO: On the worksheet you have in front
of you, as of December --
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Members, please. Can I
have some decorum or whatever the word is? Holly.
MS. PERDIDO: We have 26 million. That's our
unencumbered cash. The projects currently that have been --
that are proposed, that are going to be coming, or that have
contracts awarded, or any that the Director feels should be
coming up, amounts to about 9.4 million, which gives us about
16.64 million.
If you notice, in -- in this amount, we leave a
working capital fund still for the daily operations, and then
under the unencumbered cash, there's an amount for floor
purchase. And that was what the mayor had mentioned that he
would offer for the county building.
So, this is just a work sheet kind of thrown
together to show you what is actually available unencumbered
cash as of this date.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any questions for Holly?
For our financial director?
Okay. It's now recommended we go to executive
session, pursuant to HRS Section 92-583, in order to
deliberate concerning the authority of persons designated by
the Board to conduct labor negotiations or negotiate the
acquisition of public property or during the conduct of such
negotiations.
MR. VICTORINO: So move.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: It's been moved. Is there
a second?
MR. HASHIMOTO: Second.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved and seconded. All
those in favor of going in to executive session for that
purpose signify by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: All opposed, nay.
MS. PARSONS: Nay.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I will note we have one
objection. We do have five votes in order to go to executive
session. We will go to executive session.
MR. MAXWELL: Point of information, Mr. Chairman.
When you come back into session after, would the public be
involved?
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes. We cannot, by law,
make -- do any decision making in executive session.
MR. MAXWELL: I understand. It's got to be in
public.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yes. Thank you.
(Special meeting recessed at 9:57 a.m.)
(Special meeting resumed at 10:44 a.m.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Call the regular meeting
back to order regarding amending the budget amendment.
MR. VICTORINO: Mr. Chair.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: I move that we amend our budget
for the possible acquisition of the Wailuku Agribusiness
watershed lands and associated improvements with the specific
amount of $3.14 million allocated for that.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Second?
MR. HASHIMOTO: Second.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved by Mr. Victorino and
seconded by Mr. Hashimoto. Any discussion? All those -- yes,
Miss Parsons.
MS. PARSONS: I would like to, on the record, make
a recommendation to the future mayor, and to our current
mayor, and to the Council as they take over tomorrow on the
Water Board, that all due diligence be put forth on this
property, and that they look very closely at clear titles, and
warranty deeds, and issues that may come along with this
property before they make acquisition, and that they notify
the public thoroughly as to what the issues are.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Any further discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed nay.
(Silence.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Motion carries.
Item C, discussion, possible action regarding
budget amendment proposals of additional office space for the
department.
MR. VICTORINO: Do we go into executive session
for that, too?
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: I don't know. Do we need
to go into executive session for that?
MR. VICTORINO: We have these two items, right?
Combine them in one executive situation.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Kushi, do we need to
go into executive session for both items?
CORPORATION COUNSEL KUSHI: You can. I always
suggest separate motions for each. However, because this is a
budget amendment item, Mr. Chair, I would advise not to
discuss the amendment itself in executive session. But you
are entitled to discuss negotiations on both items, and that
should be the stated purpose, to negotiate the acquisition and
appoint whoever to negotiate it.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Kushi.
Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: I move that we go into executive
session.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: For -- read that.
MR. VICTORINO: For the -- thank you, sir. Do we
want to read both or just for one?
This will be for both in the matter of convening
executive session in pursuance of HRS 92-5A/3 in order to
deliberate concerning the authority of the persons designated
by the Board to conduct labor negotiation or negotiation in
the acquisition of public land or during the conduct of such
negotiations.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Is there a second?
MR. HASHIMOTO: Second.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved and seconded for the
acquisition of additional office space. All those in favor
signify by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed nay.
(Silence.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Motion carries.
Mr. Victorino, one more time.
MR. VICTORINO: I got to do it two times.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Yeah, you got to do it two
times.
MR. VICTORINO: In the matter of Kaanapali water
system, that the matter -- the Board may convene into
executive session in pursuance of HRS 92-5/A/3 in order to
deliberate concerning the authority of persons designated by
the Board to conduct labor negotiations or negotiate the
acquisition of public lands or during the conduct of such
negotiations.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Is there a
second?
MR. HASHIMOTO: Second.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved and seconded. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed nay.
(Silence.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Motion carries. Go back
into executive session for matters on negotiations of C,
office, and D, Kaanapali water.
(Special meeting recessed 10:40 a.m.)
(Special meeting resumed 11:14 a.m.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Call the meeting back to
order. Mr. Hiranaga, Kent.
MR. CRADDICK: Wait, wait. I think they probably
want to get their camera going.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: He wasn't around. Okay.
Item C of old business about a budget amendment for proposal
of additional office space. Mr. Hiranaga.
MR. HIRANAGA: I propose a motion to budget
approximate -- to budget $3 million for the --
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Acquisition of office
space.
MR. HIRANAGA: Possible acquisition or leasing of
additional office space for the department.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you. Is there a
second?
MR. HASHIMOTO: Second.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Thank you, Mr. Hashimoto.
MR. VICTORINO: Mr. Chairman.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: I think Mr. Hiranaga's motion had
leasing. I don't think that was the intent. I think the
intent was to purchase.
MR. HIRANAGA: I said possible purchase or
leasing.
MR. VICTORINO: Okay.
MR. HIRANAGA: Because some of the proposals were
leasing.
MR. VICTORINO: Okay. I just wanted to make sure.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: All those in favor signify
by say aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed nay.
(Silence.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Motion carries. Item D,
possible action regarding budget amendment for purchase of
Kaanapali Water System. Mr. Victorino.
MR. VICTORINO: Mr. Chair, I move that we proceed
with amending -- amend the budget to -- for the possible
acquisition of the Kaanapali water system for 8.5 million.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Is there a second?
MR. HASHIMOTO: Second.
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Moved and seconded from
Mr. Hashimoto. Any discussion? All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
(Chorus of ayes.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Opposed nay.
(Silence.)
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Motion carries.
I wish everybody a Merry Christmas and hope to see
you on the flip side next year. I would like to thank Cathy
and --
MR. CRADDICK: Mike, can the executive session
materials that were passed out -- can they be turned back in
to Cathy?
VICE-CHAIRMAN NOBRIGA: Very good. Meeting is
adjourned.
(Recess, 11:17 a.m.)
Department of Water Supply
County of Maui
P.O. Box 1109
Wailuku, HI 96793-6109
Telephone (808) 270-7816
Fax (808) 270-7951