BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY
COUNTY OF MAUI
REGULAR MEETING

 
Held on Thursday, March 9, 2000, at the HGEA Conference Room,
David K. Trask, Jr. Office Building, 2145 Kaohu Street,
Wailuku, Maui, Hawaii.
 
REPORTED BY:  JEANNETTE W. IWADO, RPR/CSR #135
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
 
ATTENDANCE
ACTING CHAIRPERSON: ADOLPH HELM
CHAIRPERSON: ROBERT TAKITANI
BOARD MEMBERS: 
ELMER CRAVALHO
HOWARD NAKAMURA
MICHAEL NOBRIGA
JONATHAN STARR
ORLANDO TAGORDA
 
DIRECTOR: DAVID CRADDICK
DEPUTY DIRECTOR: GEORGE TENGAN
DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: HOWARD FUKUSHIMA
BOARD SECRETARY: FRAN NAGO
FISCAL OFFICER: MICHAEL QUINN
ENGINEERING: HERB KOGASAKA
EX-OFFICIO: BRIAN MISKAE
 
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
 
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY, REGULAR MEETING
THURSDAY, MARCH 9, 2000, 9:00 A.M.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Good morning.  I'd like to welcome
everyone to our regular Board meeting.  Today is Thursday,
March 9, year 2000.  Time is 9:00 am.  We are meeting at the
HGEA conference room, David K. Trask, Jr office building, room 207.
 
In attendance we have Board members Howard Nakamura,
Elmer Cravalho, Jonathan Starr, Mike Nobriga, myself, Adolph
Helm.  We have staff Corporation Counsel Howard Fukushima, we
have our director, David Craddick, deputy director, George
Tengan, our Board secretary, Fran Nago, recording secretary,
Jeannette Iwado.
 
We have ex-officio Brian Miskae, and also Mike Quinn
from the fiscal office.  In our audience we have David Niehaus
and Warren Watanabe.  We have a quorum present.
 
The agenda has been properly noticed and filed.  We
go to approve the minutes, regular and executive session
minutes of 1/27/2000.
 
MR. NOBRIGA:  Move that we receive the minutes of
January 27, 2000, and they should be filed for 30 days review
period and at a subsequent time it shall be filed.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  Second.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  It has been moved by Mr. Nobriga
and seconded by Mr. Cravalho.  The minutes will be received
with a 30 day review period and subsequently to which they will
be filed.
 
All in favor signify by saying "aye."
 
(Ayes).
 
Opposed "nay."
 
(No response).
 
MR. CRADDICK:  On the executive session minutes,
after everybody has reviewed them, if we can get those turned
back into Fran it would be appreciated.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  The executive session, please give
that to Fran before we leave today.
 
Do we have anybody in the public that would like to
testify, that is not on the agenda?
 
(No response).
 
Okay, if not, let's go to Director's Report number
5, OO-11, Request approval of a budget amendment for increased
electricity expenses due to increased pumping.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  If I can turn that over to Mike.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  Just a formality.  I move for the
approval of the request for the initial appropriation for the
current fiscal year for pumping inspection.
 
MR. STARR:  Second.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  It has been moved by Mr.
Cravalho to approve for discussion the budget amendment for
increased electricity expenses due to increased pumping, and it
has been seconded by Jonathan Starr.  Any discussion?
 
MR. QUINN:  Just for the Board's information, not
only are we in a dry weather situation, and I handed out some
documents from the National Weather Service to validate that,
we are in an increased pumping cost situation, especially
Upcountry.  But we are also getting a double whammy effect in
the sense that we are being hit very hard with increased energy
costs on our electrical bills.
 
For instance, the Kamole plant alone.  Back in
December of 1998, actually in February of 1999, we had a credit
of $2,764.  In March of 2000 we had a charge, an energy charge
of $9,136.  So that's a swing of almost $12,000 in energy,
additional energy charges for that one particular site alone.
So we are getting a double whammy effect here, and that's one
of the -- two of the primary reasons why I requested this
amendment.  Thank you.
 
MR. STARR:  Does this projected number take into
account the pumping that we are currently doing, the phase 10
pumping, if we are to continue it for awhile?
 
MR. QUINN:  I am assuming that we will continue that
for at least two or three more months, actually.

MR. STARR:  Just a point of information.  My gauge
is up four inches for February, which I guess means Kipahulu is
by far the wettest part of the County for February.
 
MR. QUINN:  Based on the information that I handed
out to the Board members, we had several areas that had zero
rainfall in February.  For instance, Pukalani, Kihei, Kula.
The National Weather Service reported zero rainfall for those
areas.  Even Hana.  Normally, in February they get 6.8 inches.
They got .61 inches.  So it's pretty dry out there.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  David, it's my understanding it's
been one of the driest Februarys in about 40 years or so.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Again, referring back to Mike's
report here on the rain gauge, there's nothing that's over 15
percent of norm for all the rain gauge stations that are
reported here.  So the highest one, Haiku, is 15 percent of
normal.  Everything else, Hana 9 percent, Pukalani zero,
Ulupalakua 3 percent, Kihei zero percent, Mahinahina 15
percent, Lahainaluna 1 percent, Waikapu zero percent, Wailuku 3
percent, Kahakuloa 6 percent.
 
So that's 6 percent of normal, or those numbers that
I read are percent of normal rainfall.  So very dry.  And we I
guess had gotten a letter from Ulupalakua Ranch that also has
maintained a rain gauging station out there, and they're also
saying that in all their years of records this February was the lowest.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Okay, it has been moved and seconded
that we approve Director's Report 00-11.  All those in favor
signify by saying "aye."
 
(Ayes).
 
Opposed?
 
(No response).
 
It has been approved, Director's Report 00-11.
Old business Roman numeral VI.  We are going to go
down to C, report 99-33, request from David Niehaus for waiver
of the fire protection requirements, 1630 Piiholo Road,
Makawao, Maui, Hawaii.  TMK 2-4-13:45, lot 123 AIA.
 
Mr. Niehaus?
 
MR. NIEHAUS:  Thank you for taking the time in
allowing me to speak today.  I have come before you a multitude
of times asking for the waiver of fire protection requirement
for my property in Olinda, which I am not subdividing, but you
required at one point for me to have fire protection if I built
another structure because of the fact that I added four acres
to my farm.  I added four acres, I didn't add a new piece of
property.  I just added four acres from my neighbor's property.
 
What you are requiring of me is to bring my fire
protection down Piiholo Road about three miles, and the
standpipe ends up over half a mile from my house site.  So in
other words, the fire protection that you are requiring will be
over half a mile from my house site.
 
I have fire protection, as some of you know.  I have
explained it before.  You required of me in 1980 to put in a 4
inch line from your lateral that runs across my property for
two acres.  I put in the line as required, as per specs of the
water department, and now you are saying that it's only a 4
inch line, even though that's what you required, and it's not
sufficient to service my property.
 
So at this point, even though this standpipe that I
put in is 100 feet from my house site instead of over half a
mile where you are requiring me to put the new standpipe, at a
cost to me of approximately $400,000, also I have a 50 thousand
gallon water tank, 100 feet above the house site, with a six
inch line on it, as the fire department requires.  And as your
specs require.  This is a 50 thousand gallon tank.  It's 20
thousand more than you have allowed at least 25 people over the
last 15 years to use, and suffice for their fire protection.
 
It doesn't seem right that I would be putting in
fire protection over half a mile from my house when I have it
100 feet from my house site presently, in that I have the 4
inch line which the fire department says has enough volume
because they have pumps on their truck, but because of the flow
requirement that the water department has I am being denied the
use of that $40,000 expense that I put out going by your specs.

I spent $40,000, and now you are telling me that
it's not good enough, and I am not even arguing that point.
But I do have a 50 thousand gallon tank above the site which
has more than enough pressure.  It's only 150 feet from the
house site instead of over half a mile.  I don't think I'm
asking too much in this respect.
 
When I talked to my lawyer, James Krueger, who
couldn't be here today, he said that I could look up the
precedent, so I spent some days reading every case for 15 years
on waiver of fire protection.  And in every case that anyone
has pursued you have allowed this to happen.  For some reason
you have denied me three times now.  I'm not sure why.
 
For instance, there's a Wayne Arakaki who seven
different times requested fire protection waiver for seven
different clients.  He was never denied it.  There was never,
not even a pebble put in his road to inhibit his request.  He
was just automatically, seemingly automatically granted these
requests.  This is just one man, seven times, in all different
situations.  Sometimes they were building six houses, sometimes
they were subdividing into 8 pieces.
 
And then two years ago I was reading this report
where a Mr. Paul Mancini came before you and requested for the
Molokai Ranch a waiver of fire protection, and he said, "Oh,
it's Christmastime, couldn't we expedite the thing?"  And Mr.
Craddick said that normally the staff report would just say
that we recommend denial, as we always do, and then we give the
normal conditions that the Board approves them under.
 
Well, I know what the normal conditions are, I have
read them a hundred times now.  All of my situation fits the
normal conditions, but I'm still being denied it.  It
absolutely makes no sense to me.
 
You have your 18 inch line running across my
property for over two acres.  I put up with that every day.
I'm only asking what you have given to everybody.  To give you
an example, this Mr. Mancini, after Mr. Craddick said that,
"and then we give the normal conditions that the Board
approves them under."  Jim Murray, one of your Board members,
said, "So I'm just hoping that we don't have to continue to
write staff reports to deny things, and then wind up approving
them.  I'm just hoping that somehow we get through that."
 
And then two minutes later, without any more to do,
you approved Mr. Mancini's request.  In fact, you not only
approved his request, but he didn't have to go through any
channels, he didn't have any waiting period at all.  He just
the next day got approval.
 
Now maybe it's because Mr. Mancini was the
Corporation Counsel and was the head of the water department
legal team, I don't know why.  But how can he be treated like
this, and this Mr. Arakaki seven different times, I don't know
if it was six or seven, given approval without any problems at
all, and then in my situation you are requiring me to bring
this fire protection which has nothing to do with me.  It's
over half a mile from my building site at a cost of $400,000.
 
I'm just having a hard time understanding why I'm
being treated this way, and Mr. Arakaki can with immunity come
through here and just whatever he wants.  And Mr. Mancini can
make the case, "Oh, it's Christmas, Mr. Mancini, we will just
give you what you want, but we don't want to make this our
every day actions."
 
Well, how can Mr. Mancini without any problems just
be given carte blanche?  It's absolutely ludicrous that I could
be coming in here for five years trying to get fire protection
approval, and continually being denied, and I followed every
rule that you made.  I have spent $40,000 on your standpipes
that you required, and now you are saying they're no good.  I
put in a 50 thousand gallon tank.
 
The lady from Haiku that was on this Board, sitting
right here two years ago, said to me, "As long as it's over 30
thousand gallons there will be no problem waving the fire
protection."  So I put in a 50 thousand gallon tank so there
would be no problem, and now still it's as if I'm running up
against a stone wall.
 
So at this point I guess I'm throwing myself at your
mercy, in effect.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  I guess a month or two ago
Mr. Niehaus had asked to come back in here, and I don't know if
he had these examples of past Board actions then, but these
examples, I don't think the staff has looked at them and been
able to make a report to the Board.  So we would ask that we're
able to do that.
 
But I can tell you for certain the Molokai Ranch
example is a private water system.  And I know the Board in the
past looked at private water systems differently than they did
look at systems that were hooked up to our water system.  But
we could still go through these examples here that he's given,
if we are given the specific instances that he's looked at, and
make a report to the Board.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Jonathan?
 
MR. STARR:  I have a question or two though.  I
understand there's no staff report, it has not this time around
been put through the process, but is this for the fourth or the
fifth house on your property?
 
MR. NIEHAUS:  The fourth.
 
MR. STARR:  For the fourth.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Under our rules it is a subdivision,
something that comes under the Board's purview.
 
MR. STARR:  So it is really for an additional
house.  Is there a memo that you signed that said that you
would bring the system up to standard if you built additional houses?
 
MR. NIEHAUS:  What happened was I was trying to
extend my farm.  I have approximately 8 acres planted in
flowers and native trees, and I needed to extend it because I
didn't have enough volume.  So I bought from my neighbor up
above me four acres and attached it to my property.  It was a
simple attachment, there was no subdivision.  It was called a
consolidation, where I attached four acres.
 
So in order to do that, after all the paperwork was
done and after all the money was paid, the water department
said, "Well, we will allow you to do that if you sign this
piece of paper here saying that you will bring your fire
protection up to standard."  My fire protection was fine.
 
The reason I have no pressure in my 4 inch line was
when the new treatment plant was put in for your lateral that
runs a half an acre across my property to lower Kula, they
didn't consider the 11 people on the line.  EMC admitted that,
the engineering company, that they didn't know that they had to
consider the 11 people using water out of the line.  So the
water pressure dropped in my 4 inch line that I paid $40,000
for, and no longer put out enough pressure because they made
the treatment plant lower than the original reservoir, or
whatever the situation was.
 
So in answering your question, the requirement was
because I added four acres to my property for continuation of
my farm.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  David, I have got a question.  I
know there was a thing in one of these information packets
about Mr. Niehaus saying that there was an engineer that was
there that did a pressure reading on the standpipes, and
apparently they had a high pressure, and you based that fact
on, a high pressure, based on the pump being on.  Was there a
pressure reading done when the pump wasn't pressurizing the
line again on those standpipes that he has on his property?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  To tell you the truth, I am not sure
what you're talking about.  Is it in these minutes that have
been included in here?
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  In some of these minutes here he had
specified that there was a pressure reading done on his
standpipe by somebody from the Board of Water Supply.  He
didn't have documentation, but he stated that there was
somebody that took pressure readings, and I think it was in
excess of about 180 PSI on those two standpipes that he had for
fire protection.
 
MR. NIEHAUS:  That's correct.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  You stated also that that pressure
was due to the fact that that line was pressurized by a pump,
and that you were getting some variables in reading because
it's higher when the pressure is on and probably -- excuse me,
when the pump is on, and probably lower when the pump is not
activated.  Did anybody go back there and take a pressure
reading when the system itself wasn't pressurized by the pump?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  I couldn't say.  What happens, how
you get that pressure is when we are in a low water situation
we're feeding water up to Lower Kula; water will feed back to
the Piiholo reservoir.  When it does that, that line pressure
will come up, but it's only during the drought when we're
pumping, that that occurs.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Howard?
 
MR. NAKAMURA:  Mr. Chairman, I agree that perhaps in
view of the information that Mr. Niehaus has provided, that
there have been other precedents, if you will.  I am not sure
if you want to call it precedent setting, but other similar
examples that perhaps the Board should be aware of.  Those
situations should be reviewed and provided to the Board perhaps
with the assistance of Corporation Counsel, so that we are sure
we are talking about similar situations.  But I do have a
couple of questions in the meantime.
 
Mr. Niehaus, there was an original subdivision back
in 1983, or somewhere in that time?
 
MR. NIEHAUS:  Yes.
 
MR. NAKAMURA:  That was the time in which you were
required to put in this private fire protection system with the
two standpipes.  At what point did you build your 50 thousand
gallon storage tank?
 
MR. NIEHAUS:  About two years ago.
 
MR. NAKAMURA:  So that's relatively recent.  And
that was in response to the fact that your private fire
protection system, because of what you say are acts that the
County did relative to the treatment plant, was no longer able
to provide adequate pressure for your use?
 
MR. NIEHAUS:  ECM admitted that they didn't consider
the 11 families that take water directly off the pipe.  That
they only considered the outflow on the end of the pipe, which
is Lower Kula.  It's a much lower area, so there was plenty of
pressure.  And the fact that they put their treatment plant
down lower than the original storage they didn't think was
really going to affect anything, because they just took it from
that treatment plant to the outflow at the end of Lower Kula,
and there was plenty of fall, or whatever they call it.
 
Then, I forget, Doug, or whatever his name is there,
admitted that he was never informed that there were 11 people,
11 families on the pipe.  So I mean I am not trying to say
somebody -- obviously there was a mistake made, and I paid
$40,000 for my water system, which I put in per your specs.  I
really did it in good faith.  And all of a sudden it was no
good because of a shortcoming on the engineering side of the
treatment plant.
 
And I didn't come here to ask for my $40,000, I'm
just asking that I be allowed to use this water tank, which the
water department, it's very well documented, has allowed many
people to do.  It isn't vague like, "Oh, I wonder if they've
ever done this."  It's not like that.  There's many situations
that they have allowed people to use a water tank over 30
thousand gallons for this exact situation that I'm doing.
 
I am not asking for some kind of -- for you to set
some precedent that you haven't already acted in this way.  I
think if any one of you read these reports, I went through them
for days, I spent days outside of Mr. Craddick's office with
the help of Fran.  Thank goodness that someone would help me
out to get this paperwork.  And I read through every one, from
John Pollack, I can't even remember all their names.  Everybody
in the end that made a do about it was granted permission.
 
It's like Mr. Craddick said, "We always deny it.  We
recommend denial, and then we give the normal conditions that
the Board approve them under."  And I fall into the normal
conditions.  I mean to me, it seems so basic.  I followed your
rules at every point, and I am only asking for what you have
given other people.  I am not trying to be unrealistic, I am
not trying to be overbearing.  But I mean at this point, you
know, there's so much money I have put out, and I have waited
so long.
 
And I have to deal with your pipe running across my
property, I have to deal with people driving on there.  I have
to deal with when your tank just recently was leaking, the 5
hundred thousand gallon tank.  They run all the water down the
gulch and across my property.  I didn't come down here and
complain. I'm just asking for something you have given everybody else.
 
Paul Mancini can come in here and cut through red
tape and get total approval in 10 minutes, and it's taken me
four years, and I can't even get the truth.  I mean I'm treated
as if I'm some bad person that's done something, trying to get
away with something.  I am not trying to get away with
something, I followed the rules.
 
MR. NAKAMURA:  I want to ask one more question.
This pipe that he talks about where we have an easement, that's
a line that goes from the treatment plant to the system?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  It's a transmission line from the
treatment plant to Kula Kai.
 
MR. NIEHAUS:  2000 feet across my property.  14 feet
in the air in places, totally unsightly.  It isn't some buried
pipe that no one can see.
 
MR. NAKAMURA:  Thank you.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  Mr. Chair, point of information.
 
Mr. Craddick, did I understand you to suggest that
this matter be returned back to the department to review all of
the instances and the past actions of the Board and report back to us?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  That's my recommendation.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  If there's no objection, I so move.
 
MR. NAKAMURA:  I second.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  It has been moved by Mr.
Cravalho that the staff review all past situations regarding
this issue and come back to have it back to the Board for
review, and it has been seconded by Howard Nakamura.  Those in
favor signify by saying "aye."
 
(Ayes).
 
Opposed "nay."

(No response).
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  Mr. Chairman, just a point of
information of Mr. Craddick.  What time frame do you believe
the staff would need to comply with the decision of the Board
at this time?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  I believe we can do it within 30 days.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  How about 45?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  That would be better yet.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  That would be it.  So we come back
and take a final position on it.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Okay, thank you, Mr. Niehaus.
 
MR. NIEHAUS:  Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  I'd like to move on to item D,
discussion and possible action regarding Complaint for
Declaratory Judgment, Civil Number 00-1-0001(1).
 
MR. FUKUSHIMA:  If I may, Mr. Chair.  We met with
the department and the engineering staff, and I have discovered
some information that was previously not considered.  Before I
discuss those particular matters, I would request this Board go
into executive session to consult with their attorney.
 
MR. STARR:  Before we do that, I'd like to know, be
refreshed what this is about.
 
MR. FUKUSHIMA:  This is the Basil Milan case.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  Mr. Chairman, does the Corporation
Counsel have any additional information to present to the Board?
 
MR. FUKUSHIMA:  Yes, I do.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  As a matter of record, Mr. Chairman,
I have reluctances about going into executive sessions.  In
reviewing the minutes of executive sessions many things are
being said that cannot be used at a subsequent time unless you
go through a court process.  So whatever it is, lay it out on
the table.  Everybody sees it, everybody knows where we're at,
and then we know where to proceed from.
 
This is not with respect to this case, but in many
other instances I have seen where we go into executive session,
and it appears to me we go into executive session to circumvent
certain things becoming public, without really having any legal
ramifications.
 
MR. FUKUSHIMA:  If I may comment on that.  In the
past that may have occurred.  However, this is a civil case
that's been filed in the Second Circuit Court.  I will be
discussing various matters relating to this civil case that may
have some ramifications if made public.  So again, I would
request this Board to go into executive session to discuss this matter.
 
MR. NOBRIGA:  Mr. Chairman, I will move that the
Board convene to executive session pursuant to HRS 92-5(a)(4)
in order to consult with the Board's attorney on questions and
issues pertaining to the Board's powers, duties, privileges,
immunities and liabilities.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  It has been moved by Mike Nobriga.
 
MR. STARR:  Second.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Seconded by Jonathan Starr to go
into executive session pursuant to HRS 92-5(a)(4).  Those in
favor signify by saying "aye."
 
(Ayes).
 
Opposed?
 
(No response).
 
The ayes have it.  We are now in executive session.
 
(Whereupon the Board went into executive session)
 
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR SESSION RESUMED
 
MR. FUKUSHIMA:  If I may, I don't think there's any
particular action that has been taken on this matter.  For the
benefit of people in the audience, again, let me make the
statement that on this particular item, it was brought and
placed on the agenda for the Board's information, and there is
no action that the Board has to take.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  So if there's no further discussion
and no action regarding this, item D, we will move on to Other Business.
 
MR. NOBRIGA:  Move to defer Old Business A, B.
 
MR. STARR:  One at a time, I think.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Okay.  Roman numeral seven under
Other Businesses.
 
MR. NOBRIGA:  Old business VI A, discussion and
possible action regarding the Iao/Waikapu Ditch Agreement.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Excuse me, the only reason why we're
going over to Roman numeral VII, it was suggested that we wait
until Chairman Takitani comes.  He should be here soon.
 
MR. NOBRIGA:  Does he have information?
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  David?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  I believe so, yes.
 
MR. NOBRIGA:  We will wait then, thanks.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  All right.  So we move on to Roman
numeral VII, Other Business, A, discussion and possible action
regarding the Upcountry water situation.  David?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Okay, we have passed out here the
Upcountry water report for the last week, and I guess it has
some other interesting dates in there.  The Wailoa ditch flow
currently is at 24.8.  One-and-a-half million of that is being
put in there by Maui Land and Pine.  The total reservoir
capacity has continued to decline.  We have been pumping water
up from Kamole Weir to the Lower Kula system since about the
17th or 18th of February.  We are not gaining any on that
reservoir, but it's not dropping also.  You can see the numbers
remain fairly constant there since the last of February when we
started pumping water up.

Again, as you know, we are continuing in a very dry
situation.  There doesn't seem to be any rain in the near
future.  So we definitely are in a low water situation.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Jonathan?
 
MR. STARR:  What's the status of the flume up there?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Jonathan, I can't really tell you.  I
know the foundation is all completed.  The base of it is put
on, they're putting the sides on, and I would expect if it's
not done today, probably tomorrow it will be finished.
 
MR. STARR:  At the last meeting you said you were
looking at a week to 10 days.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Yes.
 
MR. STARR:  Is that something we can bank on in the
next few days, that it will be?  My one point of concern here
is to see Kahakapau keep dropping, and it's dropping because
the flume is out.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  We're very fortunate it has been dry
and we are able to work on it.  There's no water coming in even
once we finish it.
 
MR. STARR:  Will it be ready in the next few days?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Yes, I believe it will be.  They were
looking at Wednesday.  And like I say, I didn't go up there on
Wednesday.  It may be finished today for all I know, I just
didn't check this morning.
 
MR. STARR:  With the pumping we are holding our own
though throughout the system, except for the upper system where
the flume is down, am I correct?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  That's right.  And we're getting
ready to make a connection into the treatment plant for the
Kahakapau well below the treatment plant.  When that happens we
expect the treatment plant to be down for about half a day.  So
you are going to see Piiholo take a big drop when that occurs tomorrow.
 
MR. STARR:  Wait.  For what action?  Kahakapau well?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Okay, right, it's Hamakuapoko,
sorry.  Aside from that, Kahakapau was hooked into the system yesterday.
 
MR. STARR:  What?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  That connection was finally completed yesterday.
 
MR. STARR:  Which connection?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Into the system from the Dowling
project.
 
MR. STARR:  You are talking about the Kaupakalua
well.  So the Kaupakalua well is connected to the system?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Yes.
 
MR. STARR:  Is there Health Department approval to use it?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Yes.
 
MR. STARR:  Is there electricity to it?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  No.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  You're saying it's hooked up but it's not operable?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  It's operable.  The starter,
everything is there to run it.  But what I was talking about
before I got sidetracked on the other well is the Hamakuapoko
well.  We are tying it in after the treatment plant, but before
all the chlorination equipment, so that we will be able to put
that water into the system without having to retrieve it again.
 
MR. STARR:  As I understand, you are not running
that well except for test purposes, and you will not run it
without a declaration of emergency, am I correct?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  That's right.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  We have somebody here, Warren Watanabe.
 
MR. WATANABE:  I am Warren Watanabe, president of
the Maui County Farm Bureau.  A lot of the farmers upcountry
are discussing the water situation, and they're very concerned
about the situation.  And this also includes Maui Pine and
HC&S.  We feel that we are heading into a very serious
situation.  We're still in early March, and with Piiholo at
less than half capacity, that is where you need the water
basically, because that is the major source for the farmers in
Lower Kula.  You know, there is concern whether there will be
enough water during the summer to put out a crop.
 
Our cost of production is very high, and it is not
worthwhile to put in a crop that you will not be able to take
out and get a full potential with your yield, yield potential.
I know Ulupalakua Ranch is suffering terribly.  Even the protea
growers are disgusted.  Over the past years, the drought has
impacted them also, because my understanding is when the plant
goes through a drought it will produce another crop, but then
the plant dies.  So they will have to replant.
 
And it's a similar situation to the livestock
industry, where you cut back your herd and it impacts you over
several years.  So we are very concerned.  On this drought
report I think it should be done throughout the year, not only
during a drought situation, because I think you need to monitor
it carefully.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  We do monitor it every day, we just
don't prepare this report.  The basis for the report here is
done every single day.
 
MR. WATANABE:  But I think it's information to the
public that would be of great use, especially for the people
Upcountry.  I think it should be done regularly and not only
when you are in a drought.  So at this time, representing the
Farm Bureau, we would like to request that some kind of action be taken.
 
I agree with some of the statements Mr. Cravalho has
made about enforcement.  Many of the farmers have commented in
the past that when we were required also to cut back, why do I
see my neighbors washing their cars, irrigating their lawns?
That's a good point.  Because I drove past by even the County
Kula fire department.  We are in a drought and they're
irrigating their yard.  That's another point that has been
raised in the past about the County taking the lead also and
being responsible.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  David?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  One thing, if you look at the report
there, it says 24.8 is the ditch flow.  Out of that, today it's
24.4.  So we are dropping about half million a day right now.
Maui Land and Pine is putting one and a half in there.  So we
have got approximately 12 to 13 days before we hit around 16
million gallons in the ditch, at which point HC&S used to say
they needed 11 before they shut down.  They're now saying they
need around 8 before they shut down the mill.  If we keep
dropping at a half million a day we would hit that number in
about 13 days.
 
So at that point, if we haven't done something to
try and fill Piiholo up, which we could do by running the
Hamakuapoko wells, right now we are running, the treatment
plant is running at around 7-plus million.  If we bring this
water in below the treatment plant, we do have pumping capacity
to pump it up, and that water would actually go back and fill
Piiholo reservoir, where right now we're just holding our own
and there's no excess water to fill up the reservoir.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Jonathan?
 
MR. STARR:  I'd like to comment on a few things
here.  First of all, we are doing something, and I think that
this Board is committed and I think we're all together in that,
that we are willing to spare no expense in trying to keep the
system running.  And we just approved another half a million
dollars to pay for the electric costs, that are unusual costs
in that they're for pumping water that's basically at sea level
up to the middle and upper systems, and we are dedicated to
continuing this pumping, and this pumping is ongoing.
 
And as I understand it, as long as this pumping is
ongoing and we are willing to pay for it, which this Board is,
that the system is functioning and intact.  And if we have to
keep pumping in the summer, we will do what's necessary and
within our powers to keep the system up so farmers can
benefit.  I will do anything that I possibly can to keep water
going to the farmers.
 
Now, the ditch has been dropping, and I do agree if
it continues to drop at a half a million gallons per day that
within two weeks we will be in a difficult situation.  So I
would like to make sure that if it does drop say to 18, that we
have a special meeting, an emergency meeting, and then take
action if we need to take any action then.
 
I also understand that we are going to get some use
out of Kaupakalua well, if that's possible.  I would like to be
really clear on what's involved with getting the use of
Kaupakalua well at this time.  When could you have Kaupakalua
well in action, and is there anything else standing in the way
of using Kaupakalua well, and where would you get the generator
from to operate it?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  We would use the generators that we
have.  We have got one at North Waihee and we have got the
other ones in the Hamakuapoko wells.  If you are not going to
run Hamakuapoko, you can take the generator from there and have
the other Dowling well running within one to two days.  We need
another generator to run the Dowling well.  We have got one on
Molokai.  We are preparing to bring that one over here, but
there may be others that are available too.
 
MR. STARR:  Is there any action required by the
Board to run that Kaupakalua well, or would that be part of
your standard practice from this point?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  I guess one thing is if you run an
internal combustion engine for more than 500 hours there are
some air quality reportings that we have to do.  So other than
that, that's the only other thing that we would have to do
staffwise if we started using that.  The electricity is
expected to be in there at the end of May.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  David, in terms of gallons per
day, if you did tie in the generator and get this well up and
going, what are you looking at in terms of adding gallons to
the system?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  We think the system would only draw
about 500,000 gallons of pumping, put out around 6 to 7, but we
think the system would draw around 500 there in Haiku, where
it's situated.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Mr. Cravalho?
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  Some observations, Mr. Chair.  The
pumping cycle that you have going at the present time from the
ditch to the system encompasses what portion of the day, 24
hours, 8 hours, 6 hours, what?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  24 hours.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  24 hours. And your capacity is up to
7 million plus or minus?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Yes.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  That 7 million is contingent on
whatever the stream flow may be?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Actually --
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  HC&S, right now they say 11 million,
which may come down to 8 million, okay.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Yes.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  In addition to that 7 million or 8
million, say 7 million, you have the potential of half a
million more from the Dowling well.  You have the potential of
1.5 plus or minus from H'Poko under certain circumstances.  You
made reference earlier to 1.5 being put into the system at Maui
Land and Pine without any indication that water has been
withdrawn from that system by Maui Land and Pine.
 
Is it a balancing act or is there anything remaining
for the utilization of the general public and/or the general
farmer?  Is Maui Land and Pine removing everything that it puts
in?  That's point A.
 
Point B, is Maui Land and Pine pumping to capacity?
Is that all that is available for pumping purposes, 1.5?  I
think there has been some indication in the past that it has
gone as high as 3.5 million.  So whether there is any margin in
there, okay.
 
With respect to the pumping system being implemented
and given the necessary equipment, has any approach been made
to Civil Defense to try to locate within the state what may be
available and under what conditions?  This is what was done in
the past when we had to do a number of things there, so we have
all of our ducks in line.
 
It appears to me, and I don't want to get into a
discussion at this time with any negotiations or otherwise
what's taking place with EMI and other areas, but, Mr. Chair,
Mr. Craddick alluded to something with respect to the 8 point,
which indicates that there's a certain amount of exchange of
information.  And if an exchange of information has been going
between your office and another office, I assure you it isn't
on a one way street.  That information is being made available
directly or indirectly.
 
Now, we will place things in perspective, okay.  Let
us assume we reach a stage where the flow is down to about 18
million, okay.  HC&S, let us assume for the sake of discussion
again, that the required amount which has been stated of 11
point something million at the present time is reduced to 8.2.
8.2 or 8 point thereabouts, which would leave 10 million, of
which 7 should be ours.  Even 3 million.  But we have added to
that the Dowling and we have added to that the potential of the
H'Poko wells.
 
So while the situation may be kind of critical, it
hasn't reached a point yet where we need massive types of
actions if we put our ducks in line.  And with this in mind, I
think the Board will agree with Mr. Starr, and what we have
said in the past, that irrigation, water for irrigation
purposes for the farmers will not be affected, it will be
continued.  Because those farmers fall in the same category, in
fact in a greater category of need than Maui Land and Pine and
HC&S, and what have you.  Those farmers have only one pocket,
the others have several.
 
So if we give those assurances and we put our ducks
in line, Mr. Craddick, and Mr. Chair, repeating only what was
said today, nothing new, nothing else, but we proceed to
implement on an around the clock basis, prepare the H'Poko
wells if need be.  The Dowling well should be up in the next
five to ten days or thereabouts.  The situation may not be as
critical as we may see at first blush.
 
Thirdly or fourthly, the question with respect to
the H'Poko wells, Mr. Chairman, and I am not raising that
particular question right now, but the urgency, the real
urgency for that permanent right of entry and easement.  The
Board has taken action on this in the past.  I am not going to
raise the question at this time as to what progress has been
made in that area, but that is critical and needs to be
addressed on an overall basis.
 
I think there's room, Mr. Chair, as we look at this,
that there's room for us to be optimistic enough to work on an
overall water utilization and distribution program for this
county and for this island, and the time is absolutely right.
And I think the ducks are being placed in line.  And if we get
them we are going to be in damn good shape, damn good shape.
If we don't, what the hell, okay.  It can be done, it can be
done fast, the authority is there.
 
The finance man advised us earlier that we may have
the capacity for bonded indebtedness, if need be, of up to 8
million -- 18, I'm sorry, 18 million.  We can go a long way.
If we have our ducks in line and we know what the hell we're
doing and we can give assurances, we can get participation and
we can get involvement of a lot of interested parties and
entities in this community, notwithstanding what others may
think, and also the strength of this Board to make these things
become reality.  I think we're in damn good shape potentially,
if we don't allow ourselves to become unduly fearful.  It's there.
Do you agree with me, Mr. Craddick?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Yes.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  I'm glad.  It's a new era.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Jonathan?
 
MR. STARR:  I agree with what's been said, and it
was very well said.  I also feel some concern that along with
the fact that we don't have the normal legal right to use
H'Poko wells, we don't have the right to even access them on a
permanent basis at this time, and that's something we should
look ahead to.
 
I also would like to add something, which is that we
do want to review if the ditch does reach the 18 million gallon
level.  However, at that point I will be asking the question is
this a true 18 million gallon level.  Because there's no
question that A&B has the ability to take water from many
different sources, and I would not want to see them make the
citizens suffer by forcing us into a shortage situation because
they're trying to save money by -- they're trying to save their
electricity cost and they're just looking for their economic
benefit by letting the ditch go lower than it would have had
they been desirous of having the ditch level stay up.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  What do you mean by let it go lower,
Jonathan?  I mean that is almost irresponsible to say that the
ditch level is that way because of the rain.  After you made
the comment last time, I went out and looked at the Lowrie
ditch and the Haiku ditch.  They are not flowing, so they are
not dropping water down at this time.  So to make a statement
like that, I don't think is correct.
 
MR. STARR:  My statement was that at that point I
would just like to examine the situation more closely.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  I did go and examine that last time,
after you said that.
 
MR. STARR:  Thank you for examining it.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  I think it's very significant
language, Mr. Craddick, at this time it is very pertinent.  It
is equally correct to say that water historically had been
diverted from time to time from one level to another level.
And we are saying that we do not want to see this happen in
this particular circumstance.  It has been done in the past.
 
MR. STARR:  If that time comes to pass, at that time
we will want to be examining it, not yesterday or last week.
 
One other thing is that I would like to take
Mr. Watanabe's comments to heart, which is that I would like to
receive this report every day year round.  So I'd like to see
this become a permanent item so that we have the ability to
have our memory refreshed every time we pass by our fax machine
in the morning.  So please continue this on a daily basis, and
please continue all of the pumping that we can from those
sources that are legal and proper for us to use.
 
I'm hoping also that the public is made aware that
we're spending a lot of money on pumping if we're running a
fossil fuel generator.  If we are going to be running a fossil
fuel generator at Kaupakalua, that's going to be even more
expensive than the pumping that we are already doing.  So we're
sparing no expense to keep the system up and running.  And I
hope the public remembers that when the time comes to examine
our rates and fee structures, because we are definitely
spending more than we're selling this water for, but it's the
right and proper thing for us to do.  We have a compact with
our user base, especially the ag users, to give them the water
they need, and we will do that.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Mr. Watanabe?
 
MR. WATANABE:  One final comment.  The reason why I
pointed that out was because I am on the committee, the
Governor's committee to develop this Hawaii State drought plan,
and I think this kind of record keeping is important in
developing such a plan.  Also, in regards to again, our cost of
production.  It's fine to get assurances, but based on past
history, the farmers, it's not going to pay your bills, to put
it bluntly.  And a lot of us are struggling to survive right
now.  If you cannot get your maximum amount of return per acre,
it's a losing battle, especially with what's going on on Oahu.
 
As president of the Farm Bureau, the Farm Bureau
represents all agriculture on Maui, and I think the Board needs
to understand also that Maui Pine and HC&S, by them staying in
business it reduces our cost of production, just because of
their sheer size.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  Mr. Chair, I am not going to let that
pass, I'm really not going to, because it is not based on
factual data, and it is not based on actual experiences.
Reference has been made with respect to what took place in the
past, and I deny responsibility for any of that.  I don't know
if others in this room can deny responsibility for what took
place in the past.  In the past several years, not ancient
history, the past several years.
 
The fact does remain that with respect to income,
while Maui Land and Pine, HC&S, A&B do suffer during a period
of drought and water restrictions, they have access to other
means for survival.  They have other cash flow that contributes
to the well being of this community.  And in a situation where
there is a need for all parties to cooperate and to succeed and
to sacrifice, that sacrifice is supposed to be spread equally,
right across the Board.
 
And because of the sheer size of an enterprise, be
it A&B or Maui Land & Pine or East Maui Irrigation or whatever,
that the sheer size of that operation should not dictate what
happens to other sectors in the community if it results in
poverty or reduced income to the remainder of the community.
 
And so I think we need to keep in perspective the
relationship of everything, because if we follow that logic to
its ultimate, then we are going right back to what took place
in the past, which you have been critical of, which is the lack
of water for the farmers.  If we place Maui Land and Pine in a
position directly or indirectly, as well as A&B and HC&S,
directly or indirectly into a position that they need not
sacrifice, they need not conserve to the same degree and to a
greater degree than the farmers, then I think we are doing a
disservice to the farmers that you are supposed to be
representing at this time, and we are doing a disservice as
well to the community as a whole.  It may come to pass, but it
won't come to pass without some obstacles.
 
MR. WATANABE:  I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  I hope I am.
 
MR. WATANABE:  I'm saying because of their size,
they help the smaller farmer by reducing our cost on things
that we use to produce a crop, such as chemicals.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  The question before us, Mr. Chairman,
is with respect to water.  If we wish to speak with respect to
general economics, that's another phase and that's another
place, and I'm prepared to go on that one, too, at any time.
But with respect to water, and this is what the problem is
facing us today is water and its allocation.  And here I am,
trying to place the independent farmer at a higher priority
rating.  And I think perhaps I misunderstood, but I think
perhaps if we are not careful I've been slightly undercut and I
don't like it.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Any further discussion?
 
MR. STARR:  On a slightly different aspect, this is
something we always remember about when things get dry, which
is that there was money approved by the Legislature, two
million dollars, to fund the design and planning of the EIS for
a large water storage area Upcountry.  And the money I believe
still hasn't been released yet by the Governor in connection with that.
 
What is the status of that, David?  Or maybe Warren
might know something about it.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  It's not being released.
 
MR. STARR:  Warren, do you know anything about that?
 
MR. WATANABE:  All I heard was that the Governor was
going to lapse the money.
 
MR. STARR:  I would just say that it would be a sad
thing for that money to lapse, because that reservoir in the
future years would really help us.  And this is a sign that the
Upcountry system is still very delicate and will be delicate,
probably more delicate in the future.  I sure wish we had the
money to start building or working on that reservoir.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Any other further discussion?
 
Warren, we appreciate your insight on this, and we
will let you know that the Board does support agriculture here
on Maui, and we will do our best to assure that water is
provided to the farmers.  That's what we are here for.  We will
try our best.
 
Any other questions?  Thank you, Warren.
 
So is it the general consensus that we are not going
to take any action specifically today on the Upcountry water situation?
 
MR. STARR:  The only action is that if we do start
reaching, approaching the 18 million gallon range in the ditch,
that if that's before our next regular meeting that an
emergency meeting be called.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Do I hear a motion for that?
 
MR. STARR:  I'll make that in a motion form, that if
the Chair sees that we are starting to approach the 18 million
gallon a day flow rate in the ditch, that before the next
scheduled meeting that an emergency meeting be called to take
it under consideration.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  Do we have a second?
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  Second.
 
CHAIRMAN HELM:  It has been moved by Jonathan Starr
that if the 18 million gallon level, the ditch level reaches 18
million gallons that there will be an emergency meeting called
to review and see what action needs to be taken, at least
before the next meeting.  Those in favor signify by saying "aye."
 
(Ayes).
 
Opposed?
 
(No response).
 
Could we take a 10 minute break and we will be back
at about, we will say, 10:30.
 
(Whereupon Acting Chairman Adolph Helm was replaced
by Board Chairman Robert Takitani).
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Good morning.  I'd like to
reconvene the Board of Water Supply regular meeting.  I'd like
to go back to Roman numeral VI, Old Business.  Go to item D,
discussion and possible action regarding the EMI Memorandum of Understanding.
 
We have had very, very significant discussions with
several of the large landowners, and we are still in active
negotiations, among which is to acquire or convey properties,
et cetera.  And because we are still in negotiations, I think
it would be appropriate that we go into executive session,
because this information is still proprietary between the
parties.  Could we have a motion to go into executive session?
 
MR. NAKAMURA:  I so move, Mr. Chair.

MR. CRAVALHO:  Second.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Moved by Mr. Nakamura, seconded
by Mr. Cravalho that we go this to executive session pursuant
to HRS 92-5(a)(4).  All those in favor signify by saying "aye."
 
(Ayes).
 
Opposed "nay."
 
The ayes have it, we will go into executive session.
 
MR. FUKUSHIMA:  Just one small correction.  It will
be under 92-5(a)(3) to deliberate concerning the negotiations
of the acquisition of public property, rather than (4), just
for clarification.

CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  That's fine.
(Whereupon the Board went into executive session)
 
IWADO COURT REPORTERS, INC.
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
REGULAR SESSION RESUMED.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  We are in regular session.  With
that then, I don't think we need to take action on item A.
 
MS. NAGO:  Bob, who moved and seconded that we go
out of executive session?
 
MR. NOBRIGA:  Jonathan moved, I seconded.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  We have completed work on item
A, so we will move down to Roman numeral VII, Other Business,
item B, discussion and possible action on existing engineering
reports regarding the Waikamoi flume.  Mr. Craddick?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  At the last meeting, Jonathan said he
wanted an engineering report, and number one, it's still not
clear in my mind what you wanted.  The next thing is we don't
have a budget appropriation.  I just wanted to make the Board
aware that there's a number of studies, the earliest one being
one that was done by the DeWalt predecessor group in 1958.
There was a study done in 1962 by Austen and Towell
Corporation, in 1985 by Belt Collins, and then in November of
1985 there is a committee, the Upcountry Water Study Committee
report done in 1985 also.  We have all those reports.  I don't
know how many more reports we need on the system, but if the
Board wants more we can do more, but we do need some
clarification on what it is the Board wants.
 
MR. STARR:  I would like to move that a study be
done on the work that should be performed to make the flume
safe and sound for the next 25 years, and that there be funding
for it to be put into the upcoming budget, which I'm sure will
be passed by the time we are ready to proceed with this.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  Mr. Chairman, the only reason is what
we had discussed earlier in executive session, and one of the
items deals with that particular question.
 
MR. STARR:  As long as the understanding is that we 
will be working to upgrade the flume so that it's safe.  I take
back my motion.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Mr. Craddick?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  That's all right, as long as we are
not stopping work that we are doing waiting for the study.
 
MR. STARR:  That was never the intent.  I'd like to
look at those studies at some point.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Okay.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Then we will move on to item C,
Iao Aquifer pumping update from U.S. Geological Survey.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  We have the report in here from them,
the quarterly report that we get.  Pumpage has gone up from
17.9 to 18.5.  And keep in mind, this is the December, the
pumping at the end of December.  Water levels have recovered
somewhat mainly because of the rainfall that we had back in
December.  Chlorides are up a little bit, water levels are
still continuing to decline.  Rainfall has continued to be low
in the last few months.
 
And if you look at the rainfall charts they're near
the very end of this report here.  They give the rainfalls, and
you can see that the rainfalls are all well below that median
line of zero there.  And I guess as a side to this too, the
North Waihee well that we are getting ready to start using is
now operational.  We have taken the bacteriological samples,
that's clear.  We have taken the samples to check for the heavy
metals, pesticides, things like that, organics, and when that
sample is back we should be able to put that well on line.
 
MR. STARR:  What's the status of the damaged pump?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  It's fixed.
 
MR. STARR:  The one that --

MR. CRADDICK:  What had happened was when the wall
was constructed there was a concrete plug or supposed to have
been a concrete plug in the bottom.  For whatever reason that
concrete plug failed and all the gravel that had been on the
outside of the casing came up on the inside and I guess plugged
the pump and stopped it from producing water.  This is a water
lubricated pump, so when the water stopped flowing, some of the
bearings went out, about 7 or 8 of them, and that had to be replaced.
 
So what we did, once we got the pump out we got all
that gravel out of the hole and reset the pump with the
replaced parts.
 
MR. STARR:  Which well was that, was that the --
 
MR. CRADDICK:  It's what we call Kanoa number one
well, and it's just off to the right of the corral there.
 
MR. STARR:  So all of our Iao pumps are functional now?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  No.  This is the Kanoa well.  The one
for the North Waihee or the Central Maui Joint Venture, the big
one is not repaired yet.
 
MR. STARR:  That's the one I was talking about, the
big joint venture well where the pump broke off.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  We got a camera down in the hole, we
know that it broke off about three feet below the discharge
head.  There is about 100 feet above the pole, and that's where
the column is, about 100 feet down.
 
MR. STARR:  What's being done to fix that?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  I believe the bid is -- I think Ken
has completed the bid, so it's out in advertising.
 
MR. STARR:  Shaft 33, we're pumping that with the
old pumps and old motors and all of that?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Yes.
 
MR. STARR:  Are they functioning properly?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Yes.
 
MR. STARR:  Do you plan on doing any upgrade of shaft 33?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  No upgrade of the shaft at all, but I
have talked with the new owners of the property up here, and
they are basically willing to give us the land over there.  So
that discussion I think is going on with engineering on where
they need to locate the reservoir.
 
MR. STARR:  How about the problem with the state of
rainfall coming into this shaft, is that something we have to
deal with?

MR. CRADDICK:  Well, I am not sure what you are
talking about.  We had a problem one time where water did go
down the shaft, and we have since put a little berm there to
prevent that from happening.
 
MR. STARR:  I thought at one point they wanted it to be plugged.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  If we utilize the well, utilize the
shaft without the shaft, namely drilling down from the top,
that shaft will have to be sealed.
 
MR. STARR:  But using the shaft we don't need to do
anything additional, is that correct?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Well, I don't know if you want to pay
for all that land.  There's many, many house lots and that cuts
through.  That would affect it if you try and utilize it.
 
MR. STARR:  So the land you are talking about
acquiring is right over the well?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Yes.
 
MR. STARR:  For those who don't know, that's a long
inclined shaft and it goes under houses, and it's what they
call a Maui well, where they dig down from the water and put
the pumps down on the bottom.  So if we acquired the land over
the wall itself we would have to do a major engineering project
of drilling down.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  The major engineering project is
sealing the tunnel.  The drilling of the well would be no
different than drilling another well.  But take that back, it's
a little different because it would have to be much
straighter.  But the bigger cost probably is sealing the
tunnel, because before you seal it you have got to get all the
junk out of there and then seal it.
 
MR. STARR:  How about Waikapu, what is the status?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  It's completed.  There will be
something in the budget next year to put a pump station there.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Okay, we will go to item D then,
update on the water issues discussed at public meetings.  Were
there any public meetings?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  We have a letter in here from the
Kula Community Association.  We had a meeting up there with
them.  I don't know if we can call that a public meeting, but
we had a meeting with the administration on drought procedures there.
 
What happened was after the Board didn't declare a
drought last time, I tried to make it clear to everybody that
just because the Board doesn't declare a drought doesn't mean a
drought doesn't exist.  Because I guess other people key off of
us.  The state forest people, when we would go into drought it
would be justification to keep people out of the forest.
 
So to Brian's credit we got the group together to
discuss these things and how they may be implemented in the
future if the Board feels it's not necessary to declare a
drought, even though there is a low rainfall situation out
there.  And I think some good exchange was had there between
the group and the fire department, the Parks Department, to get
their assistance and then get them information from us, namely
getting out these drought charts to those people so they
themselves know the low water situation is being observed.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  I might add here we just
received very short notice about the Salary Commission having a
hearing tomorrow.  They only gave us notice, I think it came on
the 2nd or 3rd.  They wanted our input as to where we would
stand on salary increases for the director's position
equivalent I guess to the Public Works director.  And I think
it is essentially a three percent increase.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  I believe that includes the deputies also.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  The deputies.
 
MR. STARR:  I believe that it's been several years
since there has been an increase, and they're discussing an
across-the-Board increase for all the directors and others who
are in similar positions.  I think that it's overdue.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Mr. Miskae?
 
MR. MISKAE:  Except that some of the directors have
not been in their positions very long either, so they are going
to consider that as well.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Any other expressions of where
we would stand on the increase?
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  We don't even know what we pay.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  What do we pay now?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  $75,000.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, that a
three percent adjustment is nominal for the position.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  That's generally my feeling,
because there's a substantial responsibility.  In order to
attract the best people you would have to have a suitable
salary level.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  The Big Island right now is $78,000
and they're I think moving that manager's pay up.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  I have no problem.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  So I see a general support for that.
 
Any other water issues at public meetings?  Okay, we
will move to announcements.  The Maui Chapter of the Hawaii
Society of Professional Engineers recognizes the Department of
Water Supply's North Waihee Water Source Development Project as
Project of the Year.  I think the director informed us of that,
but do you want to expand on that?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Well, it's a project that was
designed by Warren Unemori.  I think the total amount expended
to date is about $13,000.  It will still be ongoing as we
develop the other wells, but we are very happy to get that
award.  We didn't think there were going to be any this year
for some reason, but we did get the award for that.
 
I guess one interesting thing about that project or
one thing that I saw was very interesting, and I brought it up
when we did the dedication up there, is back in 1996 when we
were negotiating to get the property with Brewer, once we got
that property I believe the proposal was submitted to us, and I
think within about three hours notice to proceed was given on
the job.  So from the proposal to the writing up of the
contract, the signing of the contract, the notice to proceed
was three hours.  So we know Corporation Counsel can work very,
very rapidly when required.  It has to be one of the all time
records on getting a contract awarded.
 
Keeping in mind the procurement process was somewhat
on the sideline there because we were purchasing a contract
that was already underway with Brewer.  But that's probably one
of the more unique things in my mind on that project is you see
Honolulu is having the same problem down in Waikiki now that we
ran into, there were a lot of obstacles that came up and we
still completed that on time with a very minimal amount of
change orders.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Congratulations to the staff and
the department on that award.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Thank you.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Our next meeting is a joint
meeting on the 15th with the Planning Department, and that's
scheduled for 1:00.
 
MS. NAGO:  Right.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  1:00 pm at the planning
conference room.  It will be a joint meeting.
 
MR. STARR:  Is there going to be a published agenda
for that meeting?
 
MS. NAGO:  I filed it yesterday, and I'm sorry, I
mailed it out to you folks in the mail.
 
MR. STARR:  Who is going to be chairing that meeting?
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Planning.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  When I talked with John Min, he and
Bob are going to have to talk together to decide exactly how
they will manage it.  We are holding it at the Planning
Department, and I think Bob is I guess going to defer to Bob
Carroll.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  We are in their home court.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  One thing that I would suggest here,
we talked about the drought situation here earlier, and if the
Board can see their way clear, rather than maybe adjourning
this meeting, recess it to say maybe 11:00 on Wednesday and
look at the situation then.  And Fran will be happy to have a
lunch in between then and the other meeting, on the 15th.  And
then we don't have to notice another meeting, and we will be
able to look at the drought situation again.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Why can't we just come at 12:30?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  It's up to you.  I am just suggesting that.
 
MR. STARR:  There's something that morning.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  The Mayor's address.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Yes, the Mayor's state of the County.
 
MR. MISKAE:  And the budget.
 
MR. STARR:  12:30 sounds better to me.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  I'd like a motion to recess
until 12:30 pm at the planning conference room.  Or where shall
we meet, Board of Water Supply?
 
MR. CRADDICK:  I presume the room will be open, but
I don't know.
 
MS. NAGO:  We would need to check with them.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Maybe we can say here for now, and we
will check with them, and if we can move it over there we will
just put a notice up here to meet over there.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Should we just meet in your
office at 12:30?  That's probably better.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  I think if it's a drought thing and
people want to come they are not very well going to be able to
come to my office, it's a pretty small place.  I would expect
people may come, because we are in a much worse situation than
expected.  It will be of some concern to the people.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Can you get this at 12:30?
 
MS. NAGO:  Do you want me to check now?
 
MR. STARR:  Why don't we see if we can get that at 12:30.
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  It would be better to get the
planning conference room, because we are there.
 
MR. STARR:  I move to recess until 12:30 on the
15th, and the location will be announced.
 
MR. FUKUSHIMA:  I think if there's a recess it
should be time certain, date certain.
 
MR. CRADDICK:  Maybe take a five minute recess and
we will check.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  Mr. Chair, may I suggest that any
agreements to be sure to put in a severability clause.
 
(Whereupon a brief recess was taken).
 
CHAIRMAN TAKITANI:  Okay, 12:30, Planning
Department, March 15.  The joint session with the Planning
Committee will be March 15th, and we will meet at 12:30 in the
planning conference room prior to the scheduled joint meeting
in case we have an update on the drought situation.
May I have a motion to recess?

MR. STARR:  I so move.
 
MR. CRAVALHO:  Second.
 
HEARINGS OFFICER:   Moved by Mr. Starr, seconded by
Mr. Cravalho.  All those in favor signify by saying "aye."
 
(Ayes).
 
Opposed "nay."
 
(No response).
 
The ayes have it.  We are recessed.

(Whereupon the Board recessed at 1:45 p.m.)

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